Isss There A God!! [Archive]

uəʌəsʎɐɾ

26-09-2005, 04:24 PM

I believe that our perception of what a 'God' is is completely man-made and by default wrong. I mean, our word God is just a title that we've put on this vast unknown. 'God' is like saying 'so's your face', it works as an answer for pretty much anything.

Going from teh other thread about einstein; isn't God just a name for teh absence of knowledge? Plato believed that knowledge = good, so maybe what i have just said is a contradiction.. HMM!

Alterego

26-09-2005, 04:31 PM

yeah maybe i should of just used the other thread! but this question is defferent! sorry to religious people if this question offends you! sorry

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Athriller

26-09-2005, 04:31 PM

Yes, but Plato is not omniscient. As Friedrich Nietszche suggested in 'Beyond Good And Evil' (not the game), morality is simply a human construct. I do agree with Nietszche about religion being a form of opium for the masses, but I also believe that they've been purposefully construed for the purpose for a man from an origin of truth.

I'm not particularly religious, but historically speaking, there have been articles through time indicative of a God's will.

I think it's ignorant to out right say that there is, or isn't, a God. Flawed logic can never lead to solid conclusions, and no argument for or against the existence of God is without flaws. Believe what you will, but under the conditions of this current time, your beliefs will be beliefs, and nothing more.

RoadKill

26-09-2005, 04:36 PM

No but unless something can be proven outright, the simplest belief that requires the least amount of assumptions should be deemed true.

Athriller

26-09-2005, 04:40 PM

Réne Descartes would humbly disagree.

The first precept was never to accept a thing as true until I knew it as such without a single doubt.

And where did his lead him?

Cogito, ergo sum.

Descartes is also one of the reasons I believe in a God, the man is a genius. I recommend reading his meditations I-V. He goes from proving he exists, all the way to almost proving the existence of a God.

Haver

26-09-2005, 04:57 PM

God is pretty much our conscience.

Athriller

26-09-2005, 05:03 PM

God is pretty much our conscience.

And what exactly is your conscience? A moral guideline erected by whom? And do other animals have this conscience too?

Retro_Link

26-09-2005, 05:36 PM

Well you may as well say; YES!

because if there isn't a God it wont matter,
and if there is a God your quids in!!

lol,

Haver

26-09-2005, 05:47 PM

And what exactly is your conscience? A moral guideline erected by whom? And do other animals have this conscience too?

GOD.

GOD.

GOD.

Athriller

26-09-2005, 05:50 PM

GOD.

GOD.

GOD.

You promised me dinner! >=[

kopo

26-09-2005, 05:51 PM

Haver

26-09-2005, 05:52 PM

I would imagine that those sharkies don't have much of a conscience. They're all eat now, think later.

kopo

26-09-2005, 05:56 PM

I would imagine that those sharkies don't have much of a conscience. They're all eat now, think later.
Damn those hedonistic pigs!

Arragaun

26-09-2005, 06:02 PM

i personally dont think he controls our lives.
That'd be the free will gifted to humans. I agree with that sentiment that God is less of a 'he' and more of an abstract concept. Something along the lines of God being a collection of all the forces in existence.

Meik

26-09-2005, 06:18 PM

Wow, this thread is on the road to opening a large can of worms.

soag

26-09-2005, 06:19 PM

i think there is a god, he created the universe, altho god isnt a white man, nor is he old, nor does he have a big white beard, i believe him to be a force that keeps the universe together. i personally dont think he controls our lives. thats my understanding

So baisicly what your saying God isnt santa :p.

Yes I do belive there is a God, Im not a die had christian but I do belive and pray at least once a day. I suppose its something you either belive or you dont.

Aimless

26-09-2005, 06:36 PM

Judging by some of the people I've met on the internet, I'm going to have to say no.

I can't take the idea of God seriously as it is too contradictory, vague, and generally shambolic. Some type of universal power? Well, at least that's too vague to be self conflicting.

I do think there is something 'more' to life: spirit, the Force, gaia, whatever. However, there is too much that is known that I don't yet understand to get caught up with something that has had its existence contested for thousands of years.

kopo

26-09-2005, 06:36 PM

Aimless

26-09-2005, 06:40 PM

Personally i don't believe in god, or a certain higher force. I believe in cold hard facts, science, math, the laws of physics and evolution.
Science is just another form of belief. I'm not belittling it, I'm just saying that if you want 'cold hard facts' then not even the guys in white coats can give you a definitive answer.

Gaijin von Snikbah

26-09-2005, 06:41 PM

Do I believe there is a old man with a white beard, sitting in heaven controlling everything with his PS3? :p Not really.

I agree with the unknown statement. Its humans way of grasping the ungraspable.

But...

Do I believe in a higher intelligence? Yep. A conscience beyond our normal grasp. Only visible by the divine. So, eat that. :p

RoadKill

26-09-2005, 07:15 PM

Monopolyman

26-09-2005, 07:28 PM

I'd like to point out that science already has a lot of proof on how the universe was created. So the theory of god creating the universe seems a like a fantasy story to me tbh.
Personally i don't believe in god, or a certain higher force. I believe in cold hard facts, science, math, the laws of physics and evolution.

Not trying to influence anyone or anything, but there is a small idea about that that does make sense. Basically, you could say how the universe was created, but you could then go on to ask what caused that to create the universe, and then go on to ask what caused that to cause the the thing that created the universe, and so on until you come to an uncauseable cause, many say is God.

I learned that in R.E., its something to do with science and religion living together or something.

Blackfox

26-09-2005, 07:31 PM

You can't prove your disprove your ideas. Its down to faith at the end of the day. So we are all winners.

thecreepingmess

26-09-2005, 07:46 PM

You can't prove your disprove your ideas. Its down to faith at the end of the day. So we are all winners.

Well, you can. The whole basis of science is that things can be measured and tested. There's no faith involved.

Alterego

26-09-2005, 07:50 PM

i lernt about that in RE to monopolyman! :P
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Mr. Bananagrabber

26-09-2005, 07:52 PM

There is, I prayed to him that my download would start and it did!
Seriously!

Cheapshot

26-09-2005, 07:59 PM

To be honest I just don't know, there's no way to prove god exists or not - it's beyond our power.

No matter how far Science advances they will never be able to be certain if it exists or not, I like to rely on certainties not speculation.

I'd like to think we have our own personal gods with our consiences though.

It's all just a big freakin' mystery. :heh:

Alterego

26-09-2005, 08:00 PM

hey m8! :)

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Cheapshot

26-09-2005, 08:04 PM

hey m8! :)

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Alterego, don't spam -- and what's that picture about?

Alterego

26-09-2005, 08:09 PM

argg! my sister must of copied and pasterd some picture ! :mad: and i didnt reolise and pasted that :mad: damn her !!!!!!\

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Dieter

26-09-2005, 08:22 PM

I mean, our word God is just a title that we've put on this vast unknown. 'God' is like saying 'so's your face', it works as an answer for pretty much anything.

URMUM .

tendosgirlfriend

26-09-2005, 08:43 PM

I personally think God was just a creation to stop our fears about life and death. I don't actually believe that he exists. I think Jesus might of existed, but I don't think he did anything signifigant. And no way did mary get pregnant while still being a virgin.

Shorty

26-09-2005, 08:52 PM

I hope there is a god, I don't want to die and be nowhere and nothing. It's too miserable an idea.

Alterego

26-09-2005, 08:54 PM

yeah thats a good point! :shock:

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RoadKill

26-09-2005, 09:17 PM

thecreepingmess

26-09-2005, 11:29 PM

I hope there is a god, I don't want to die and be nowhere and nothing. It's too miserable an idea.

Is it? I doubt it bothered you much before you were born; so I doubt it will bother you much when you're dead.

RATM_4_EVA

26-09-2005, 11:40 PM

Is it? I doubt it bothered you much before you were born; so I doubt it will bother you much when you're dead.
good point :wink:

Shorty

26-09-2005, 11:44 PM

Is it? I doubt it bothered you much before you were born; so I doubt it will bother you much when you're dead.

There's a difference between never having existed and a future not existing. Prior to existing I hadn't had a consiousness with which to fear the unknown, and even once born life consisted merely of human instinct and learning. Now we're at the stage where our head is full of theorising and what-ifs. Not only that but prior to being born, the future involved life. After death, the future involving nothing means an end, not a beginning.

thecreepingmess

26-09-2005, 11:53 PM

There's a difference between never having existed and a future not existing. Prior to existing I hadn't had a consiousness with which to fear the unknown, and even once born life consisted merely of human instinct and learning. Now we're at the stage where our head is full of theorising and what-ifs. Not only that but prior to being born, the future involved life. After death, the future involving nothing means an end, not a beginning.

The future, as it now and before we were born, is a state of transience. We are never nothing; just something else.

Gaijin von Snikbah

27-09-2005, 12:20 AM

But youre dead, so how can you tell? :p

Smalldude76

27-09-2005, 01:08 AM

Is there a God? I don't think so. Everything can be explained through fact and science, but discovery is still waiting to happen (die-hard religious people tend to ask how everything was created, then smile when you don't know). To say there's a god is to say the Matrix exists. An alternate life where the one we live in is just a fake/test is disbelievable.

As for God always having existed:

God = +infinity, -infinity
when they are added:
infinity - infinity = 0 (woo!)

God I believe was just a commonly used character in myths, fables, tales, moralic issues, etc and over time was taken more seriously. Kind of like Santa Claus but no one was there to say "he doesn't exist". It just began to spread. Over time we start getting freaks of nature like floods that were being passed off as Godly acts. As for Jesus, who knows how much of scripture is true. Most of his teachings are just morals/kindness. As for his 'miracles' things tend to be over exagerated. Things like the sinner who was about to be stoned. "The eldest left first, followed by their sons, and then the youngest" (or something to that effect). People would all leave at once, not upon the calibur/how much sin they've commited.

Science - the way we can prove there is no god.

Alterego

27-09-2005, 10:11 AM

The question of afterlife has been asked for years, and will probably be asked for years to come! it will most likely never be proven! Who believs in afterlife here?

i dont know what i believe in! im one of those unsure people :)

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Mr_Odwin

27-09-2005, 11:36 AM

Science - the way we can prove there is no god.

Go on then.

As Blackfox stated there is no way to prove or disprove the existence of God with science. We can have theological discussions but there is no solid evidence, which, I believe, is what science requires.
Anyone that is an atheist is merely a faithful follower of their own ideas and not a believer in science. Agnosticism is what they should adhere to.

Who believs in afterlife here?

I do, and I believe that I can be with those that I love too.

thecreepingmess

27-09-2005, 11:50 AM

Go on then.

As Blackfox stated there is no way to prove or disprove the existence of God with science. We can have theological discussions but there is no solid evidence, which, I believe, is what science requires.

It's difficult for science to prove the existence of something that doesn't exist, by virtue that IT DOESN'T EXIST.

The burden of proof is on the believer; not the skeptic.

I do, and I believe that I can be with those that I love too.

Awww... isn't that cute. Fortunately you will be with the ones you love: In the ground. Dead. Decomposing into compost.

Mr_Odwin

27-09-2005, 11:55 AM

It's difficult for science to prove the existence of something that doesn't exist, by virtue that IT DOESN'T EXIST.

The burden of proof is on the believer; not the skeptic.

You believe that God doesn't exist. You too are a believer, so the burden lies on you.

Awww... isn't that cute.

Do not patronise me.

thecreepingmess

27-09-2005, 12:06 PM

You believe that God doesn't exist. You too are a believer, so the burden lies on you.

I'm happy to consider the concept of a heavenly being known as 'God' once there is some credible evidence.

Unfortunately the evidence is as elusive as a ghost on Most Haunted.

Mr_Odwin

27-09-2005, 12:08 PM

As is the evidence that he does not exist.

thecreepingmess

27-09-2005, 12:15 PM

As is the evidence that he does not exist.

Yes, that's convenient for you.

People have been doubting the existence of my friend The Great Invisible Amoebic Heffalump of Curious Dimensions for years.

Since I made him up, there's little evidence that he doesn't exist.

Which is convenient.

Mr_Odwin

27-09-2005, 12:44 PM

Well I think you just discovered a weakness in your faith.

RoadKill

27-09-2005, 12:45 PM

If you pull something straight out of your asshole, of course there's no way to prove or disprove it, you're just being a fucking child.

Athriller

27-09-2005, 03:49 PM

This actually semmed like an interesting thread, then reasoning went out the window. Oh well.

It's difficult for science to prove the existence of something that doesn't exist, by virtue that IT DOESN'T EXIST.

The burden of proof is on the believer; not the skeptic.

.

Science is means of expressing human understanding under human constraints, purely formed by human reasoning. Guess what, science is not conclusive.

Modern science and physics is based on the belief of atoms. No-one's seen one. We don't factually know they even exist, we're merely forming 'facts' under our own assumptions. 2,000 years of science, and it's constantly changing. There is still doubt among many whether there are infact atoms. It started off as a bunch of children pulling something straight out of there arseholes with no way to prove or disprove it, back in Greece BCE.

Well, you can. The whole basis of science is that things can be measured and tested. There's no faith involved.

That's only if you take the basics for granted. There are many who would oppose your logic with extremity. As Heraclitis said:

"No man can cross the same river twice, because neither the man nor the river are the same."

Past experiences are not a measure of the future to come.

But let's play your game, and take science as it is. Does anyone remember the recreation of the universe by computer? They recreated the universe down to the very last electron, and after such a great achievement, they had fun with it.

They took one electron out of the universe. What happenned? The universe dissappeared.

They added one electron to the universe. What happenned? The universe dissappeared.

This means that by either pure chance or some grand design, the universe was created to perfection. I don't know which to believe, but given this experiment, I'm swaying with the latter.

mario114

27-09-2005, 03:57 PM

Yes. -Enough said.

Edit:

Just to add a bit for, i think the way the whole earth is ballanced and perfectly supports life, with so many differnt systems that would need to be perfect, this idea is exploered in the gagai prenceiple (the earth as a living life), not to be takne litrally but to show the way diffenrt systems work perfectly, the same is true in biology and physics (exapmle being how the world is orderly) with many differnt systems all being perfect, and the fact remaining if they weren't just right we wouldn't be here.

mario114

27-09-2005, 04:06 PM

I'd like to point out that science already has a lot of proof on how the universe was created. So the theory of god creating the universe seems a like a fantasy story to me tbh.
Personally i don't believe in god, or a certain higher force. I believe in cold hard facts, science, math, the laws of physics and evolution.

How can you belive just in science, when great scientistic belived in God, take einstein for example, or even that current leading expert on particle physics who is also a priest. I think the biggest evidence for God is science's explanation for the creation of the universe. physics tells us that the unvirse started from one single poiunt of infanite smallness, surly to proff God didn't exsist you would need to prove that the universe wasn't created or formed at one point, but was allways there. I didn't want go into red/blue shift ect. so i could keep it simple.

Alterego

27-09-2005, 04:34 PM

you have to think back to the point in time when the univers was made, how was it made and was there a certain person or thing that made it, or was it just a big coincidence, then how was this coincidence created, what was it that created the being, thing, or things that created the coincidence that created the univers...... okay im confusing myself anyone wana help me out lol! :heh: :grin:

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dukkadukka

27-09-2005, 04:41 PM

i believe in a god, or mother nature, or possibly the tao. but i really doubt that if there was an all-powerful being he would write a book condemning homosexuals and banning humans frome ating shellfish. in my opinion christianity is just an overblown, outdated cult.

uəʌəsʎɐɾ

27-09-2005, 04:55 PM

Well you may as well say; YES!

because if there isn't a God it wont matter,
and if there is a God your quids in!!

lol,
elaborate, please :P

You think that if there's a god, and you say "Hey, I always believed in you man! Even when I was cheating on my wife with the corpse of my neighbour after I robbed him of his statue of JESUS, then I had an abortion." that the dude will let you waltz on into heaven?... It ain't gonna happen. If you're going to "believe" in God then you have to believe in his word, you gotta live the way he WANTS you to live if you're going to get a nice slice o' creamy heaven pie.

Are you willing to waste your life in teh hope that there's an after-one waiting for you, an eternal happiness to reward your hard-done life?

Then again, some would say this is a rather extremist view.

And Dieter; So's your face is your mum!

Smalldude76

27-09-2005, 10:44 PM

Go on then.

Didn't say I could, but as I said, it will someday be proven as more of our past, the world's past, and the universe is uncovered. Of all the information the universe has to offer, we've only uncovered a portion of it. It can be disproven, but at the moment it cannot be disproven or proven.

Anyone that is an atheist is merely a faithful follower of their own ideas and not a believer in science. Agnosticism is what they should adhere to.
But I do believe in science. There are theories like the 'big bang' that I don't agree with although I have no opinion of my own. However, I'm set heavily on the progression of science in the universe to uncover everything we can before humanity destroys itself.

Awww... isn't that cute. Fortunately you will be with the ones you love: In the ground. Dead. Decomposing into compost.

No need to try and be insulting. If I could I'd spend eternity with the ones I love. Alas there's an end to life, and unfortunately love.

And Emo, you've made a very valid point :lol: funny, yet so true.

Blackfox

27-09-2005, 11:30 PM

Haha, i find it idiots that the 'scientists' are more or less denying something that acn't be proven or disproven. As Athriller said, prove an atom exists. We don't you except people's point of views? whats the big deal? I believe in God, and i study sciences, sue me.

tendosgirlfriend

27-09-2005, 11:35 PM

Is it? I doubt it bothered you much before you were born; so I doubt it will bother you much when you're dead.

I was reading back through the last few pages and reading what everyone had written and when i came to this I began to think. Like thecreepingmess said, we didn't exist before we were born. We didn't begin in heaven or hell then pop into our mothers stomachs and started to grow. It wasn't depressing or upsetting because we didnt even have the capability to think about not being alive. How come can't it be that way after we're dead too? Its really hard to think about not being able to think and feel and move, but if you think about it, you can't have an opinion about it if you don't even exist. If we didnt 'exist' before we were born, then whose to say we dont 'exist' after we're dead?

RATM_4_EVA

27-09-2005, 11:37 PM

A lot of people need to know that God did NOT write the bible.but by a bunch over zealous believers.

tendosgirlfriend

27-09-2005, 11:40 PM

RATM_4_EVA

27-09-2005, 11:44 PM

Lol I dont see how God could of written it in the first place. I thought he lived in the clouds. Would he of sent it down using his magic powers?

It was Mathew, John and thats all I know. Hence the names and all that weird stuff.
what i was saying is that, alot of people read the bible too seriously as if God wrote it him/her/its self.

Smalldude76

28-09-2005, 01:15 AM

what i was saying is that, alot of people read the bible too seriously as if God wrote it him/her/its self.

It was actually prophets sent by god/ people carrying the word of God that wrote the old testament&parts of the new. old being people like Isiah(sp?) and new being St. Paul (or Saul..). The first 5 books were written by Moses (his scribe) and started off them bible. In a way, it was written 'in the words of god' but was put into human terminology as 'the language of god is too great for us humans' says my religion teacher.

Haha, i find it idiots that the 'scientists' are more or less denying something that acn't be proven or disproven. As Athriller said, prove an atom exists. We don't you except people's point of views? whats the big deal? I believe in God, and i study sciences, sue me.

I think you're taking what I said a little too seriously. I'm simply stating my view, the way of science. If God can be shown by any means, I'd be more than willing to watch. Unlike the fact something like that has never been done, we know atoms exist although we have never seen them. We knew bacteria existed before we could see them, did we not? Or are people forgetting the meat-in-closed-jar experiment? We know atoms are there, we know they have subatomic particles, we are just unable to see them with the current technology, however we are getting ever closer. Afterall, my stating there is no god is the equivalent of someone stating there is a god.

Shorty

28-09-2005, 07:30 AM

Guys you're just arguing the entire point of agnosticism back and forward. Some people believe in God, some do not, some want to but find it hard. That's all there is to it, stop trying to force other people to agree with you, cos that's known as preaching ;)

old_gregg

28-09-2005, 12:18 PM

Whoahhhhhhh..Guys that is some deep shit your gettin into with this thread, lets just leave it there shall we???

masaki86

28-09-2005, 12:30 PM

I think it is really arrogant of the human race to think that we are the one 'true' race made by the overseer of everything, and we will be the only ones who he saves after death.

There are probably numerous other planets with intelligent life on out there in teh universe, so will it mean that when they die, God will do nothing for them and not permit their entrance into heaven?

I want there to be something after death, as it is hard to imagine just ending and that is it, so I hope there is a God.

It was actually prophets sent by god/ people carrying the word of God that wrote the old testament&parts of the new. old being people like Isiah(sp?) and new being St. Paul (or Saul..). The first 5 books were written by Moses (his scribe) and started off them bible. In a way, it was written 'in the words of god' but was put into human terminology as 'the language of god is too great for us humans' says my religion teacher.

Btw, that is purely an assumption. We don't know anything about the real old testament. It could have been written by a bunch of pharisee's to try and get people into their religion, but mainly, the events that are portrayed in the OT, namely the first 5 books, are just stories created to make understanding easier and more enjoyable.

old_gregg

28-09-2005, 12:41 PM

I think it is really arrogant of the human race to think that we are the one 'true' race made by the overseer of everything, and we will be the only ones who he saves after death.

There are probably numerous other planets with intelligent life on out there in teh universe, so will it mean that when they die, God will do nothing for them and not permit their entrance into heaven?

I want there to be something after death, as it is hard to imagine just ending and that is it, so I hope there is a God.

Other intelligent life in the universe??? I'm sorry my freind but you are very naive. I just don't think you comprehend how unique and finally balanced the earth is. For example if there was only a 1% increase in oxygen in the atmosphere, there could be no life on this earth, I could go into very intricate detail about distance from the sun, the fact that we are one of the few solar syatems with one sun, but I won't because that would take all day.

I will however leave you with this, how long is time? You see in the eternity of time the life of our Solar system is but an insignifficant dot, the time of the earth is incomprehensiblely small and the time life has existed on earth even smaller, and Humans (the only intelligent life known on earth) have only existed a few hundred thousand years.
So what I am trying to say is that the chance of there being intelligent life out there AT THE SAME TIME as intelligent life existing on earth is minuet given the fine balance of life giving planets, in fact you'd have a better chance of getting repeatedly hit by lighting every minute for the rest of your life.

old_gregg

28-09-2005, 12:43 PM

Oh and lets not get into STRING htoery here. That being that everything is made of tiny strings...which basically states that there are infinite parralel universes for anything that could happen.

Android18a

28-09-2005, 12:52 PM

Well, I think it's a common misperception that you're either "for" science *or* God. If you actually read the bible it makes a lot of sense.

Examples:

Genesis tells the order of creation - planets, light, sea creatures, flying creatures, land creatures, man. This ties in with scientific evidence. Whether or not you beleive in Evolution or Creation (or Creation via Evolution on God's part) the order is the same.

The water cycle. This is briefly mentioned in the bible about water returning to heavens to fall again (I might try find some of this stuff later if I get time), although it was recorded in the bible long before any real scientific texts on the subject were written.

The earth as a sphere. The book of Daniel refers to the Earth as a "sphere... hanging upon nothing". This was at a time when the general opinion was that the earth was flat, resting on the back of giant turtles, etc.

There's more but none that spring immediately to mind. However, I beleive that science and God can co-exist. After all, if God did exist it would probably be a better move to make things occur as if they had naturally formed than to magically create everything in a literal week (I beleive by the "days" of Genesis it is refering more to time periods than actual literal days - after all, light wasn't created on the first "day" so how could you even measure?).

Man, these topics get really deep, huh? Oh well, everyone is free to beleive whatever they want - those of us who beleive in God are grateful to him for that.

Mr_Odwin

28-09-2005, 01:25 PM

(I beleive by the "days" of Genesis it is refering more to time periods than actual literal days - after all, light wasn't created on the first "day" so how could you even measure?).

The word translated as day may also be translated as 'an indeterminate amount of time'.

I agree with the rest of your post too.

Blackfox

28-09-2005, 03:29 PM

I actually went to a lecture yesterday which was mainly about genetics and evolution, but also had a lot of philosophy thrown into it. The scientist, Arber (who discovered resistricion endonucleases, all you biology kids) was a Christian and was saying that he felt that evolution was God being lazy (for want of a word), and "why physically alter every species, or leave them to do it themselves?" He had a point. Interesting lecture.

Platty

28-09-2005, 04:57 PM

ah no not another thread like this..

to answer the original question.....no one knows if there is a God or not, but what we do know is Science..

Alterego

28-09-2005, 05:40 PM

this thread has gotten Deap! i believe there is a greater being i supose but im still not shure about GOD! im kind of sitting on the fence about god! and i could fall any side! :)

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Tanooki

28-09-2005, 06:37 PM

I did A-Level RS and Philosophy so I know alot about this, but is far to deep to delve into now. This topic wants to ask people the ultimate question, the one that is so huge and perplexing that millions of people have tried to find out the anwser for thousands of years and yet we fall down onto our knees as we are dealing with something far beyond our comprehension.

Personally, I am an atheist, do not believe in God and I believe that without religion, the world would be a happier place. I wrote a 59.5 page essay on the matter...few..that ws tiring!

Haver

28-09-2005, 06:45 PM

More importantly, isn't there a God?

masaki86

28-09-2005, 08:47 PM

Other intelligent life in the universe??? I'm sorry my freind but you are very naive.

I'm sorry, but I think you are very naive. Just because we think that is how everything works, doesn't mean we are right; that is just how we humans believe it to be. Don't just think that we know everything; we know jack about the universe really, we assume a lot of things-heck we don't even know everything about our own planet so how you can come out and say that 'this must be like this, this must be like that...' is beyond me.

Those factors you poured out are for the creation of humanoid life. Wait; those facts you poured out are what our scientists believe are needed for the creation of a planet capable of having human/intelligent life. The fact is, we cannot say whethere that is true for different forms of life. Some may not need oxygen, some may not need light...we just cannot be sure, so think about things like that before you call me naive.

Kurtle Squad

28-09-2005, 08:54 PM

God was made up as an explanation for life. Humans minds cannot take tehre being no explainaion or no understanding, just as it cannot understand infinity.

Athriller

28-09-2005, 08:56 PM

#1cubeplayer

29-09-2005, 02:01 AM

Other intelligent life in the universe??? I'm sorry my freind but you are very naive. I just don't think you comprehend how unique and finally balanced the earth is. For example if there was only a 1% increase in oxygen in the atmosphere, there could be no life on this earth, I could go into very intricate detail about distance from the sun, the fact that we are one of the few solar syatems with one sun, but I won't because that would take all day.

I will however leave you with this, how long is time? You see in the eternity of time the life of our Solar system is but an insignifficant dot, the time of the earth is incomprehensiblely small and the time life has existed on earth even smaller, and Humans (the only intelligent life known on earth) have only existed a few hundred thousand years.
So what I am trying to say is that the chance of there being intelligent life out there AT THE SAME TIME as intelligent life existing on earth is minuet given the fine balance of life giving planets, in fact you'd have a better chance of getting repeatedly hit by lighting every minute for the rest of your life.
You shouldn't resort to offensive name-calling. I don't understand how there can be solar systems without a sun. Or why "suns" can be so rare in an infinitely huge universe. Excuse me for being so naive.

killer kirby

29-09-2005, 02:16 AM

i am not getting into this thing all i am going to say is that i belive that god exsists and there is a heaven and a hell

Link

29-09-2005, 02:35 AM

I think religion is a sign of human weakness. Many people are afraid of being alone and not having someone to guide them and lookout for them. Therefore, we created religion to fill the void. When things go right in a person's life, they automatically say that god was looking out for them, but when something bad happens, they just say that is how god intended it to be. I've seen this happens many times. Anyway, I don't believe in god, but I understand why some people feel the need to.

P.S: If there really was a god, would preists be molesting little boys in church?

old_gregg

29-09-2005, 10:12 AM

You shouldn't resort to offensive name-calling. I don't understand how there can be solar systems without a sun. Or why "suns" can be so rare in an infinitely huge universe. Excuse me for being so naive.

Offensive name calling???? Where did that come from!! Did you grow up in some kind of place where...oh...forget it.

Mr_Odwin

29-09-2005, 11:59 AM

Offensive name calling???? Where did that come from!! Did you grow up in some kind of place where...oh...forget it.

You called someone naive. There are nicer ways that you could have made your point.

masaki86

29-09-2005, 02:59 PM

You called someone naive. There are nicer ways that you could have made your point.

Yes, and you called someone naive for saying something, then you just backed up your reasoning with assumptions we don't even know are accurate. Just because our scientists say it is right, must mean it is right eh?

Tell that to the people pre-medical renaissance....

Alterego

29-09-2005, 09:47 PM

yeah i agree, i actualy think you are very niave yourself for using asumptions and that i carent believe that out of all the planets out there and all the different enviroments, that there isent other alien life, i believe that there is other humans out there and that we are desendadnts of them....yeah im not gonna get into that, but yeah im only stating my belife im not saying that its a fact or nothing. wich is what it kind of sounded lik eyou were.

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Smalldude76

29-09-2005, 11:26 PM

yeah i agree, i actualy think you are very niave yourself for using asumptions and that i carent believe that out of all the planets out there and all the different enviroments, that there isent other alien life, i believe that there is other humans out there and that we are desendadnts of them....yeah im not gonna get into that, but yeah im only stating my belife im not saying that its a fact or nothing. wich is what it kind of sounded lik eyou were.

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Cheapshot

29-09-2005, 11:32 PM

That's rather cruel...

Link

30-09-2005, 01:09 AM

lol...that's great

Haden

30-09-2005, 07:55 PM

"Science works by experiments it watches how things behave. Every scientific statement in the long run however complicated it looks. Really means something like I pointed the telescope to a point in the sky at 2.20am at Jan 15th and saw so and so. Do not think I am saying anything against science, I am only saying what its job is and the more scientific a man is the more I believe he would agree with me that this is the job of science and a very useful job it is to. But why anything comes to be there at all and whether there is anything behind what science observes something of a different kind, this is not a scientific question.
The statement that there is such a thing and that there is no such thing is not a statement science can make. Real scientists do not usually make them, it is usually the journalists and popular novelists who have picked up some odds and ends of half baked science from textbooks that make them. It is really common sense, supposing science ever became complete so that it knew everything in the entire universe, is it not plain that the questions. Why is there a universe? Why does it go on as it does? Has it any meaning? Would remain just as they were."

This is from a book my the Christian theologion and fiction writer C.S.Lewis called Mere Christianity. Mr Lewis was probably one of teh greatest minds of the 20th century and certianly one of the most logical. I hope that helps this debate a bit. Will post my own views later but im so very tired.

Kurtle Squad

30-09-2005, 08:21 PM

Raining_again

30-09-2005, 08:33 PM

Therefore, we created religion to fill the void. When things go right in a person's life, they automatically say that god was looking out for them, but when something bad happens, they just say that is how god intended it to be.

If you're imaginative you can come up with numerous reasons as to why god "planned" all the evils in the world to happen. i know this is a tired arguement, but why would a god or "heavenly being" let thousands be killed in the various natural disasters we've had in the past few years.

Personally i dont care if people believe in god or whatever, i wouldnt push any belief into someones face and wouldnt let people do it to me.

totally agree with the priests molesting children point. that is pure evil. children are supposedly a miracle and should be "protected by god"

but theres no arguing with religion. it always has a backup. no proof will ever stump someone with faith.

Athriller

30-09-2005, 09:37 PM

I don't understand this 'how can here be a God if there is evil' arguement.

1. Good, evil. Morality. Who sets the standard for morality? What's good? What's evil? But sure, let's take the 10 commandments or whatever scripture and use that as a basis.

2. You assume that God wanted to create a perfect planet. Why so? Perhaps a perfect being wanted to create a perfectly imperfect planet.

3. Trade off. Hurricanes. They're so bad and evil, why would a God ever let that happen?! Balance, maybe? Take away hurricanes, and you've set sail for chaos. What may not be good to you, may be good for you.

4. What's wrong with suffering? Is it really that bad? It makes us stronger, teaches us lessons. Without pain, suffering or evil, we would take everything for granted.

Cheapshot

30-09-2005, 09:45 PM

You've thought about this a lot eh Athiller?

Haden

01-10-2005, 09:56 AM

I agree with Athriller. The very fact that people site evil as a reason to not believe in God seems most odd to me. Where have they learnt this divide between what is right and wrong? Other animals on this planet don't seem to have an idea of the just or unjust nature of this world.
Also humans have free will and surely a good act has much more meaning in a world were a human can act in an evil or good manner rather than being forced to be angelic constantly.