Xbox 360 General Discussion

[ShavenWolf]

what games you gettin on launch m8 ?

PGR3, PDZ and Kameo. And I'll get Geometry Wars 2 off Arcade, probably!

I'm not saying you wont but i really dont think anyone will get them on thurs, MS have asaid any amchines on xbox live on thurs they look the serial number up and ban it and fine the shop.

Do you have a link to prove this? I'm sure there's going to be some PAL ones on Live before launch, for testing or whatever.

[m_fergy]

aye am gettin PGR3 & PDZ and will get a few games off arcade

lookin forward to playin them online like cant w8 to beat ya's all :heh:

[Stocka]

I 95% aren't getting one now. Thanks Microsoft, you ruined my Christmas... :(
Lol, if you try you'll be able to get one before Christmas, I'm confident I will afterall thats my xmas present :heh:

[Caris]

loads of places are taking orders for the 2nd alocation...

[Calza]

I'm going to try and get it shortly after christmas with a vga cable and PDZ, Kameo and maybe King Kong or Amped 3

[scubahood]

I'm not saying you wont but i really dont think anyone will get them on thurs, MS have asaid any amchines on xbox live on thurs they look the serial number up and ban it and fine the shop.

Where did you hear that from and i'd have to say it is bollocks i reacon. I mean mail orders have to send the consoles out on the Wednesday to guarentee delivery for release and if on the off chance Royal Mail actually do a good job and get the console to the customer on the Thursday then its not the companys fault.

On another note was reading a bit about the xbox 360 in the sun today it was the usual bollocks where they seem to add a couple of features that it actually doesn't have but the funniest part was about the games apparently the best games are , PD0, COD 2, Gotham and ..................................wait for it

FIFA 2006 lol

[JonSt]

The 360's will be dispatched on thursday, that way you get it on launchday, if you did gameplay anyway - as their console delivery is always next day gauranteed by 1pm

[triforce_keeper]

Im a hardcore nintendo fanboy and have been since i was 3 lol when i had my snes and i havent had a new home console for 3 years now since gamecube and xbox360 is coming out soon and i NEED a new console but it seems that nintendo revolution wont be out till next x-mas i have tried not to like the xbox 360 but when i played on it at game it was brilliant!!! my fanboy has nearly been killed but then my mom saved the fanboy inside me by saying " no its to much money" lol yay!!!!!!! my nintendo fanboy has been saved but god damn i want that console soooo much!!!!

[CooInTheZoo]

Yeah i really want CoD2...or 'War Shooty' :p but I dont know wether having two fps for launch will be too much..

[m_fergy]

Yeah i really want CoD2...or 'War Shooty' :p but I dont know wether having two fps for launch will be too much..

aye a was gonna get COD2 aswell but am gettin PDZ so am just gonna wait till av done PDZ then get it

[JonSt]

Anyone seen the box for the LE PDZ, looks way better than the normal one.

[m_fergy]

Anyone seen the box for the LE PDZ, looks way better than the normal one.

got any pics ??

[JonSt]

got any pics ??

Its not something you can really see from pics, you have to see it yourself to appreciate the difference.

[Caris]

Owen hasent been on the 360 topic for a while, it feels rather strange...

[ShavenWolf]

Maybe he finally exploded with excitement!

[Jordan]

I'm pretty much sorted, i rang Tesco and preordered one. Nice people said i'll have a 95% chance of getting one.

[Bowser57]

Maybe he finally exploded with excrement!

I'd like to think so.

[Caris]

I'm pretty much sorted, i rang Tesco and preordered one. Nice people said i'll have a 95% chance of getting one.

Thats good to hear :D, Hope everyone is still up for Xmas day PDZ. :santa:

[Ormingstoke]

Thats good to hear :D, Hope everyone is still up for Xmas day PDZ. :santa:

That's all I'll be doing Christmas Day

9am: Thanks mum and dad, now clear off
9.05: perfect dark and kameo playing
10am: breakfast
10.30: perfect dark and kameo playing
3pm: turkey
4pm: perfect dark and kameo playing
7ish: doctor who
8ish: perfect dark and kameo playing

I do have a suspicion I won't be allowed to do this.

[Caris]

HAHAHAHAHAHA! that list made me smile! "thanks mum and dad, now clear off!" Exelent!

[The3rdChildren]

I'm considering leaving my console for Christmas too, but I'm also considering a new television for Christmas, so we'll have to wait and see.

[Haver]

Lol, if you try you'll be able to get one before Christmas, I'm confident I will afterall thats my xmas present :heh:

I think we're going to have to dispel a few myths here.

[Owen]

I'd like to think so.

Thanks. :indeed:

Lets hope your 360 doesn't have any problems, hey? :wink: (if your getting one)



Anyway, i hope everyone 'else' enjoys there 360's when they get them thursday/friday! and i hope you don't have any problems with it. Espicially CooInTheZoo's and Caris's who have actually shown 'excitement' for it from the beginning, which i like to see. :)

I'm now off to explode, for your enjoyment Bowser...... :bouncy:



:wink:

[scubahood]

I'm well up for a bit of R-E xmas day PD0 deathmatch we will have to arrange a time and stuff nearer the time

[Bowser57]

Thanks. :indeed:

Lets hope your 360 doesn't have any problems, hey? :wink: (if your getting one)


Nah I don't think I'll bother, what I've played of it didn't impress me.

Despite having spoken with my cousin about it (he works for Currys) and him being more or less positive he could get me one reserved on launch day including his employee discount.

But when you get that nagging feeling while playing Kameo that "Hmm..actually this isn't that great, and certainly not worth £300", make sure you think of me ;).

[Nintenchris]

Im not in here to start fights or anything... and im not coming in as a fanboy looking to start arguements. What i have come in here to do is to ask whatsall the fuss about the Xbox 360.... about? because as far as i can tell if i wanted one its gonna cost me around £300 for a "new" console that does nothing new apart from having better graphics. It seems to have the same old games and the same old take over your living room size as the old Xbox did.

So my question is what is all the fuss about? and why should i buy one? also what does it offer that i cant already get on an old xbox or cube or even ps2?

[scubahood]

I loved playing Kameo in store and i am really looking forward to getting it home with me. On another note has there been any screens or impressions of 360 running on a normal tv?

[Bowser57]

Im not in here to start fights or anything... and im not coming in as a fanboy looking to start arguements. What i have come in here to do is to ask whatsall the fuss about the Xbox 360.... about? because as far as i can tell if i wanted one its gonna cost me around £300 for a "new" console that does nothing new apart from having better graphics. It seems to have the same old games and the same old take over your living room size as the old Xbox did.

So my question is what is all the fuss about? and why should i buy one? also what does it offer that i cant already get on an old xbox or cube or even ps2?

As someone who's not all that bothered about it just yet (but will be once the right game(s) and possibly a price drop come along) I can help answer some of that.

I'm guessing you're enjoying MK DS online, imagine that but being able to choose exactly who you want to play with, and being able to speak with them at the same time. Xbox Live is excellent. Even if it wasn't improved upon(as I'm sure it will be) it'd be good enough for the "next gen".

With regards to the matter of how big a console is, do you really live in that tiny a place that it makes much of a difference? Personally once the thing is on the shelf under my TV I hardly notice it until something goes wrong or it's time to replace it with a new box under the TV.

Complaining about the same old games while waving the Nintendo banner is also a little hypocritical isn't it? How many Mario Karts is this? Are Mario Soccer, Mario Baseball and Mario Basketball huge break-throughs?

[Nintenchris]

Complaining about the same old games while waving the Nintendo banner is also a little hypocritical isn't it? How many Mario Karts is this? Are Mario Soccer, Mario Baseball and Mario Basketball huge break-throughs?

Yeah i suppose your right, but it just seems it's alot of money to be spending out on a slight upgrade from an Xbox to a Xbox 360 when the Xbox coulda had another few years run.

I suppose well just have to wait and see if they come up with any new games that havent been churned out many times before with slight differences.

[JonSt]

Yeah i suppose your right, but it just seems it's alot of money to be spending out on a slight upgrade from an Xbox to a Xbox 360 when the Xbox coulda had another few years run.

I suppose well just have to wait and see if they come up with any new games that havent been churned out many times before with slight differences.


its hardly a slight upgrade, havea look at the specs of the two consoles then comeback. Wy do people keep saying its nothing new. It doesn't have to be new to be good, the virtual boy was new, was it any god - NO!

[Moz La Punk]

It's not about the upgrade, it's about being able to play the new games that will play stunning.

[Domstercool]

I don't understand why people come out with this "it does nothing new" remark. The gamecube didn't do anything new over the N64, it just brought out games in nice lovely better graphics.

Xbox live certainly is a lovely online component and it's growing more on the 360. It's alot more than just a place to game online now.

[Nintenchris]

its hardly a slight upgrade, havea look at the specs of the two consoles then comeback. Wy do people keep saying its nothing new. It doesn't have to be new to be good, the virtual boy was new, was it any god - NO!

Yeah the specs might look like a huge leap.. but on screen it doesnt appear as huge as the specs might make you think. Oh and i guess your right also that things dont have to be new to be good, but if your investing £300 in something you expect it to make your old thing exempt because it has come on leaps and bounds.

So basicly what you guys are saying is that if i was to buy a Xbox 360 im to expect an Xbox with better graphics in the same sorta way the Cube is a better N64. Well then its just down to the games... as i have no idea what they are like, on the surface they just seem same old same old.. i will have to investigate a bit more

[Caris]

The things is its diffiirent this time around, its more complexed, its not just more raw power like from the ps1-ps2 theres now 3-cored processers, and things like that which have more potential, i think the ps3 will be farrrr better in specs than the 360 but i also think no next gen consoles will have the full power ever used, just part of it.

[m_fergy]

I dont care about the specs me like aslong as the games are good. 360's games at launch arnt that good really imo but there is some great games to come.

eg: halo3,re5,gears of war... theres 3 games there that will sell millions and im sure there is more to come

both the 360 & ps3 are going to have amazing graphics and prob the revo when nintendo release the specs and show us some screens. all depends on gameplay

[JonSt]

The 360 has by far the best launch line up ever! - FACT

Why do you people judge the console by its launch line up, surely everyone knows it will take developers a long time to get used to the new architecture of the console. WIth time, just like every console, developers will begin to produce stunning games. Surely you don't just buy a console to last you a month.

[Caris]

Yes word on what Jonst said, look at the cube line up. Lugis Mansion. Super Monkey Ball.
Ps2's, Tekken Tag,Fifa,Themepark world.

360's Perfect Dark Zero, Kameo, Quake4, COD2, EaSports games etc

[m_fergy]

but most of the games out for the 360 are already out for the ps2 & xbox. aye it will prob be the best but not all the games are great they are just conversions of games that are already out

[Domstercool]

Most of the great ones are just for 360, except COD2, but that is only a PC game, the other COD2s on this gen of platforms is a totally different game.

[Jordan]

I hate Tesco, those freaking fools. I went down today to see if my 360 was gunna happen.

And guess what, they fools said they weren't getting any in... there goes my 360...

[scubahood]

People are expecting way to much out of these new consoles but i'm afraid its going to be a few years before it makes your dinner for you. If you want to be blown away by gameplay then you're gonna have to wait till revo

[Caris]

Thats really bad service, have you tryed comet currys pcworld etc?

just open up the yellow pages and ring everywere thats what i did.

[Owen]

Nah I don't think I'll bother, what I've played of it didn't impress me.

Despite having spoken with my cousin about it (he works for Currys) and him being more or less positive he could get me one reserved on launch day including his employee discount.

But when you get that nagging feeling while playing Kameo that "Hmm..actually this isn't that great, and certainly not worth £300", make sure you think of me ;).

I wouldn't waste my time, and besides i have £300 to burn! lol

:wink: :hehe:

[Bowser57]

I wouldn't waste my time, and besides i have £300 to burn! lol

:wink: :hehe:

Judging from that list of launch games you're getting, I believe it. LOL !!1111 :D :shock: :( :awesome: :o

[CooInTheZoo]

i hope everyone 'else' enjoys there 360's when they get them thursday/friday! and i hope you don't have any problems with it. Espicially CooInTheZoo's and Caris's who have actually shown 'excitement' for it from the beginning, which i like to see. :)


haha cheers mate, I hope yours and everyone elses works fine to. Theres nothing more that upsets me is when Xmas goes wrong (e.g. microsoft repairing my 360)

Remember guys, 2pm, 25th Dec, Pefect Dark. Bring it ON!

[Caris]

Yea cheers Owen, i really cant wait now...everyday i think "what can i do to fill the time in" urrr this is horrible....anyhow yea hope no one has any problems...

[Domstercool]

*Mumbles and grumbles* >.< :cry:

[m_fergy]

Remember guys, 2pm, 25th Dec, Pefect Dark. Bring it ON!

is everyone on here doing that like ??

i should be on at that time but if am not what time yous playing till ??

[Jordan]

*Mumbles and grumbles* >.< :cry:

I'm in the same position. No one has any idea of how many they are getting. This is becoming an A class piss take.

[DiemetriX]

I wouldn't waste my time, and besides i have £300 to burn! lol

:wink: :hehe:

the.xbox360.discount.store@gmail.co.uk, a Gmail address of barely average proportions, sold minutes ago for a staggering £300; that’s $514.65 to those in the US.

So thats how you got the money :santa:

[Bren]

rang my local asda AGAIN, they confirmed the stock (which was the same as that ASDA stock list someome posted earlier) and said theyv had a lot of intrest, and wont be getting anymore before 2006, Also said im ok to go early and sit around instore.

Gonna be a long and boring day

[Caris]

I'll be joining you there Fatrox if i want a Priemium and not a Core.

[CooInTheZoo]

I was going to stay at home on friday, but i have fucking exams now!!

ARRGGHHHHHH What if the postdude comes and noone is there?!!

[Stocka]

I was going to stay at home on friday, but i have fucking exams now!!

ARRGGHHHHHH What if the postdude comes and noone is there?!!
There's no way you'll get it from Argos on friday. Monday/Tuesday at the earliest.

[JonSt]

I was going to stay at home on friday, but i have fucking exams now!!

ARRGGHHHHHH What if the postdude comes and noone is there?!!

You a Royal Mail Depo near? if yo do, can pick it up there.

[Stocka]

First Famitsu reviews are in...

NFS:Most Wanted 8/9/9/8 (34/40)
FIFA 06 7/6/8/6 (27/40)
Tetris 7/7/7/6 (27/40) :wtf:
Ridge Racer 6 9/8/9/9 (35/40)
Everyparty 7/5/7/5 (24/40)
Perfect Dark Zero 8/8/8/7 (31/40)
DW5 SP 7/7/8/8 (30/40) :wtf:
King Kong 7/7/9/9 (32/40)
Wrestle Kingdom 8/7/8/7 (30/40)

[CooInTheZoo]

There's no way you'll get it from Argos on friday. Monday/Tuesday at the earliest.

I'm WELL jelous! I have no evidence to support my sillyness, i just know it, cuz im awesome. awesome awesome awesome. MWA HA HA

yep :wink:

....

[kyletherobot]

tetris and that other game are maybe some arcade games from xbox live?

[Caris]

There's no way you'll get it from Argos on friday. Monday/Tuesday at the earliest.

This is from argos and i Quote. "your Xbox360 will be diliverd between Fri 8am-8pm"

Booossshhh.

[Stocka]

Hmm yeah, jealous of someone buying a CORE pack with a WIRED controller when I'm getting a PREMIUM pack for Xmas? Think again.

[scubahood]

This xmas day game should be a good one glad i'm getting the game friday so i can get some much needed pratice in

[Bren]

Hmm yeah, jealous of someone buying a CORE pack with a WIRED controller when I'm getting a PREMIUM pack for Xmas? Think again.

lol, why does everyone point out the wireless controller to be the best extra, its a shit extra, the 20gb hd is wot premium is for, not a shitty wireless controller, doesnt make that much of a difference.

[CooInTheZoo]

Hmm yeah, jealous of someone buying a CORE pack with a WIRED controller when I'm getting a PREMIUM pack for Xmas? Think again.

Oh cool! I wanted one of them. Show me the website you preordered

..pardon? Oh, you havent.

Well i guess its ok, your camping outside somewhere this thursday night.

No?? hmm.

Well, MIGHT see you on LIVE.




next year.

[rokhed00]

http://img320.imageshack.us/img320/1253/360onway0st.jpg

Hooray for Woolworths.

[CooInTheZoo]

What stuff did you buy Rokhed00?

[Bowser57]

What stuff did you buy Rokhed00?

It's not even a 360 order, he's just stocking up on sweets for Xmas. (Mostly Munchies and fizzy cola bottles).

[Ashley]

Hooray for Woolworths.

Woolies is evil, well was mainly the manager but shoddy company in general.

We're getting spare core systems, contemplating ebaying one or two. Tis the season to screw others over and all that.

[Caris]

Yes i mean OmGz!!!!!!1111111 a WiReLeSs JoYpAd!!!!!11111111,

And? i dont need a wirless oen for my room and if i did i cba with renewing batterys all the time etc. or paying ANOTHER £15 for plaug and charge crap.

Wired are the futre. wel for my 1 player games anyways.

[rokhed00]

What stuff did you buy Rokhed00?


From Woolworths, just a 360 premium and PDZ, I'm picking up my other games from Gameplay.

[Caris]

I can see PDZ tournys, R-E Clans and all that, OOOoooOOOO So excited!

[Owen]

4 DAYS TO GO! :yay: (How weird, is that?)

Well i seriously wouldn't care what Xbox 360 i get now, as long as i get one! If it means buying a Hard-Drive then so be it, at least you'll be able to play PD0, Kameo, Call Of Duty 2, Project Gotham Racing 3 and Condemned to name a few this friday! (Saying that, i stick to my premium thanks, due to the extras you get for free in a way) :D

I cannot believe we are SO close! I remember starting to get excited about 56 days ago, now it's nearly here!

I've decided that i'm not getting Tiger Woods now, and that Need For Speed: Most Wanted is going to be better then i first thought (34/40!!!!), so i'm definately getting that!

King Kong is also a game which i can't wait to play, and it has got some very good reviews, 32 isn't bad from Famitsu is it?! One magazine complained that your in the jungle for miles to long, but for some reason i prefer that, i hope the dinosaurs chase you alot etc..it be a little like Turok won't it? Without the superb guns though! :D

GOOD LUCK AGAIN To everyone camping out to hopefully get one! I sincerely hope you all get one! I know exactly how i would feel if i didn't! So my fingers are well and truly crossed for you all!

;)

[Caris]

I <3 Owen......

[JonSt]

From what Ive reead, every EA game sucks - apart from NFSMW. Tiger woods suffers fro only having 6 courses, basically every 360 EA game has less content that the older gen versions.

[Sarka]

I <3 Owen......

I do. :geek:

I'm getting excited and I know nobody who is getting one. :hmm:

[JonSt]

We all do.

Speak for yourself mod :P

[Owen]

You all love me?

Thats wonderful! I've been excepted! LOL :D

Your all great too! :)





(how corny... :grin: )

[Caris]

First Famitsu reviews are in...

NFS:Most Wanted 8/9/9/8 (34/40)
FIFA 06 7/6/8/6 (27/40)
Tetris 7/7/7/6 (27/40) :wtf:
Ridge Racer 6 9/8/9/9 (35/40)
Everyparty 7/5/7/5 (24/40)
Perfect Dark Zero 8/8/8/7 (31/40)
DW5 SP 7/7/8/8 (30/40) :wtf:
King Kong 7/7/9/9 (32/40)
Wrestle Kingdom 8/7/8/7 (30/40)

It sickens me to think a magazine can ate NFSMW higher than PDZ.

[scubahood]

You have to remember that in Japan they aren't into their FPS so much. Onto the King Kong subject i played the normal xbox demo and didn't think much will give it a download on friday though as it is one of the demos available on marketplace i will probably download most wanted demo as well

[Caris]

thats if your harddrive Works ;),

Oh yea! btw a question ove been mening to ask, can u go on Xbox live (gold) with only a memory unit?

[Caris]

Is anyone getting Faceplates for there 360? i think this will spice mine up a little.

Untill the limited edition Halo 3 ones proboly come out.

Blingness (http://shop.game.net/ViewProduct.aspx?cat=11273&mid=327440)

[JonSt]

Where do you get the sig things from?

I'm gonna use the free 30 day live trial to decide whether to buy it.

[Caris]

Someone i no made it for me.

imy Live renewed on the 22nd so i have a year with the 360 :D

[Domstercool]

Most Wanted is a great fun racer ^_^ I bought it for the Xbox now instead of 360 since I won't be getting one. ¬_¬

[The3rdChildren]

You cannot have an Xbox without Xbox Live. Don't be fools, this is a NECESSARY thing.

[Stocka]

You cannot have an Xbox without Xbox Live. Don't be fools, this is a NECESSARY thing.
Yeah, I want Live SO much but the problem is my gaming TV is AGES away from my computer. House is pretty big ya see. So my only other choice other than having a cable runnig through the house (which my mum wouldn't let me) is to get a wirless adaptor...but...bu..but...£60?!?!??!?!?! Argh

By the way awesome sig Caris.

[Caris]

Thanks stoka, i stole the idea of yours a little haha. did you make yours your self?

[Stocka]

Nah copied each one from other people's sigs on the Gamespot forums lol, there are loads there. I'm gonig to do a new sig soon though, so keep an eye out between now -> Xmas.

[ShavenWolf]

Apparently some people who ordered off GAME's order status has changed to 'Packing' or something similar. Anybody that ordered from GAME like to check this?

[Caris]

I look forward to it ;P

[cheets]

Status:
Your order is currently being picked and packed.

WOOOOOOOOOT get in

[cheets]

just need to get my games from scan on friday

Fot those that want to know all GAMEPLAY 360 orders will be dispatched on Thursday via City Link, just found out from GP Customer Service

[ShavenWolf]

Status:
Your order is currently being picked and packed.

I can't WAIT til my Gameplay order says something like that!! Hold on... I'm gonna use it.... it's the..... :bouncy: I CAN'T FRICKIN WAIT SMILEY!

Fot those that want to know all GAMEPLAY 360 orders will be dispatched on Thursday via City Link, just found out from GP Customer Service

Where did you copy and paste that from, if you did?

[JonSt]

Ah Damn, i so wish gameplay had used the royal mail special delivery, guaranteed before 1pm that is.

[Colin]

I don't know if this has been posted yet, but this xbox360 ad was banned in America.............

Banned 360 Advert (http://gametrailers.com/player.php?id=8568&type=mov)

Pretty wrong really, and I can't beleive someone sat at a desk thinking up the idea of portraying videogame violence in a real life setting.

It's still a very good advert, but with all the media's eyes currently on videogames, I wouldn't have said it was a great idea personally.

[cheets]

I can't WAIT til my Gameplay order says something like that!! Hold on... I'm gonna use it.... it's the..... :bouncy: I CAN'T FRICKIN WAIT SMILEY!



Where did you copy and paste that from, if you did?

From Ocuk xbox 360 pre-order thread.

My gameplay order just says part-complete

I don't know if this has been posted yet, but this xbox360 was banned in America.............

Banned 360 Advert (http://gametrailers.com/player.php?id=8568&type=mov)

Pretty wrong really, and I can't beleive someone sat at a desk thinking up the idea of portraying videogame violence in a real life setting.

It's still a very good advert, but with all the media's eyes currently on videogames, I wouldn't have said it was a great idea personally.

The ad was never banned, its never been shown on TV, people just think its been banned, it was made to generate a buzz at games conferences/lans etc. and to be passed around the internet.

[Moz La Punk]

So, first two PAL 360 reviews on my site... PGR3 and Kameo...

I shall post them here for thee reading pleasure, dear sirs.


http://mozlapunk.web-log.nl/log/4199373

Project Gotham Racing 3 (review)
Xbox 360
Bizarre Creations
European Release: December 2nd 2005
By Patrick Rijnders, freelance editor

There’s something magical about firing up a new console for the first time. You take it out of the box, hook it up (Smell that? That’s fresh console scent, don’t you love it?), fiddle around with the menu’s a little bit and then the time comes to put in the first game. Remember: this is the game that will color your memory of the new console forever. Play a game that doesn’t live up to your expectations, and you will be one of those misguided fanboys who rant on message boards that ‘the 360 suxxxorzz’! When it comes to games to start the life of your new console with though, you could make a far worse choice than Project Gotham Racing 3.

Ah, Project Gotham Racing! I can remember Metropolis Street Racing (more or less Project Gotham Racing Zero) coming out on the Dreamcast and being bowled over by this racegaming masterpiece, but being a little disappointed with the first PGR on the original Xbox. Of course, PGR 2 more than remedied this situation (as many late night sessions on Xbox Live can attest to) and now here’s PGR 3. My first impressions were that this was one of the most beautiful games I had ever seen and I could not wait to really dig into the different modes and start earning kudos. And even after a good number of hours of playing this game there is still a constant urge to keep firing up the 360 and go for another spin through Las Vegas, New York or one of the three other environments.



Let’s take a few steps back for the people not familiar with Project Gotham Racing. In PGR, it’s not just about racing fast and beating your opponents. It’s just as important to do it with style and earning kudos, the points you get for powersliding through corners, narrowly missing opponents and making hair racing turns that lead you just inches past the railing. With these kudos you earn medals, open up new cars and circuits and rise up through the ranks on Xbox Live.

The game is divided into several styles of racing. You have your standard races against a number of opponents, but also hot laps where you try to break a record lap time and other races where it is more important to show off your skills than your speed. In career mode you work your way through a succession of different events. You can choose to play through the career mode on several different skill levels, ranging from tin to platinum. Even so, the career mode is not as involving as it has been in the previous PGR’s. There are only 23 medals to win on each skill level and it won't take as much time as in previous games before you have earned every medal there is. Make no mistake though, we are still talking 10’s of hours before you finish all career modes, it’s just a bit less than we have seen in previous PGR’s.

It’s a good thing then that there is such a beefy online mode. You also have a career mode here, where the system finds opponents for you that are about as good (or bad) as you are. You don’t have to worry that you are trying to earn come credits and the only thing you see of your opponents is their tail lights speeding off in the distance. This is especially a good thing, since in PGR 3, everybody who is interested can watch other people’s races. This is quite a fun aspect, as you can see how the best racers in the game handle their cornering and overtaking. The best racers in the game are tracked in tables that are updated continuously, based on performance in career mode, but also in single modes like races, elimination races and capture the flag races. This last style of racing is a particularly fun addition to the game, where points are given to the racer (or team) that finishes a sector of the game in first place. These points are then added up to decide who ends up with the flag.



The races take place in five different environments, all broken up in many sections. These environments are London, New York, Tokyo, Las Vegas and the Nurburgring. If you are an expert at PGR, you may raise an eyebrow and wonder why there is only one new environment (Vegas) but rest assured that every location has many new parts to race through, so you don’t have to worry that déjÃ* vu is going to set in anytime soon. Like in the previous games, the cities look amazing. Race through Las Vegas at night and feel your mouth fall open from amazement when you see all the incredible lighting effects. This is what a racing game should look like, especially now that there is finally an audience watching the races. Previous PGR’s were a bit empty and lonely without humans to watch your races, but now you have an enthusiastic audience that not only cheers you on when you win a race, but also when you ram your car into a wall right in front of them.

You might even feel that you have to be a little careful with the cars, since they look better than any car models before. All cars are shined up so that every light effect possible reflects off of them and it all looks so realistic that you will cringe whenever you ram another car. Don’t worry though, the cars don’t really suffer much damage, so your Konigsegg or Spyker (Dutch cars represent!) will look just as shiny at the end of the race as when you first selected it. There’s 80 different models in total, all in full, amazing detail. In my first hours of play, I rammed many a wall just because I was rotating the camera around the car while I was racing, just to see how beautiful all the cars looked. This free camera is amazing, showing off the power of the Xbox 360 in a very effective way.

An overabundance of modes and good looks is great, but it’s all for nothing if the racing engine sucks. No worries there. The game plays very smoothly, and you will be powersliding through corners like you have been doing it ever since you were in a pram. The car models all have their own handling, but it won’t take more than a few corners to get used to them. It’s almost a little bit too easy, which does take away a bit of the danger that racing games should have. You never run the risk of crashing spectacularly, the worst that can happen is a 180 right before the finish line, with all your opponents passing you and stealing your victory. This sense of true speed and danger is prevalent though when you switch to the magnificent in-car view. This looks great, from realistic interiors to windscreens getting more dirty as you rack up the kilometers.



Enough gushing, isn’t there anything really bad to mention about the game? According to several online reviewers who gave this game 10 out of 10, apparently not. And there is nothing about this game that is really wrong in any way. It’s just that, apart from a bit more true excitement to the races, I would have liked to see more different environments, and maybe also some environments we have not seen in previous PGR’s (a moot point if this is your first PGR-experience). Apart from that, this is racing at it’s finest, and at it’s most enjoyable. With all the different racing modes and the extensive online possibilities, you can expect many a sleepless night with this game. Oh well. Who needs sleep anyway.

Review Score: 9/10
By Patrick Rijnders, freelance editor

[Moz La Punk]

http://mozlapunk.web-log.nl/log/4233295

Kameo: Elements Of Power
Xbox 360
Rare
European Release: December 2nd 2005
By Patrick Rijnders, freelance editor

It's been quite some time, but finally we get to play Rare's new masterpiece, Kameo. Originally announced for the GameCube and then Xbox, this is a shining example of what's possible with the 360. You've probably read the comments online: it's just an extension of the regular Rare-formula, it's too short, it's unoriginal, it's graphically not that impressive... But having played this game from beginning to end in a few days time, I can tell you that none of this is true. Kameo is a wonderful gaming experience that will thrill you and move you, and that will make gamers all over the world, Rare-fan or not, realize that the old masters still know how to craft a great game.

Imagine if you will a world of wonder, where elves rule and where there's an uneasy peace with the trolls. It's the world where Kameo lives, a pretty little elf who just happens to be a princess, and who also just happens to be able to shift into some of the most incredible monsters you have ever seen. Which is pretty handy, since the trolls have decided to break the truce and start a full on assault on the Elf-kingdom. They are helped in this not only by troll-king Thorn, but also by Kameo's sister Kalus, who has grown sick and tired of Kameo being the favorite daughter and who decides to take matters into her own hands.



As the game starts, you launch a full out assault on a massive troll-castle, where Kalus and Thorn are holding your family captive. As you start, you have the power to control three monsters, each with their own abilities. With just a press of the button, the slender Kameo transforms in either one of these, and to be honest, they are better matched against the onslaught of trolls that you will find in your way.

There's Pummel Weed, a plant with an attitude, who is a mean boxer with an uppercut that leaves even the biggest enemies stunned. You have Major Ruin, a bit slow when he's on legs, but indispensable when he curls into a ball (Metroid Prime-style). And there is the menacing looking Chilla, a yeti who has no qualms to stick his enemies on the spikes on his back, and who is almost undefeatable. As you play through this level, you slowly learn the different moves and a bit of the background story. For the biggest part, you are left in the dark however, and real introductions only start after this impressive level.

Suffice to say, you are not able to save your family yet, losing all your monsters in the process, and when the real game starts you get your basic training (would have come in handy a bit earlier, say before that scene where I had ten trolls with axes running at me) and background story. You start off in the enchanted kingdom, but pretty soon you are transported to the hub world, called the Badlands. This uninhibitable place leads off to several different worlds where your missions take place. In each of these worlds one of your family members is held, and you can also find back your monsters, as well as seven other monsters who each hold their own abilities. Yeah, it's pretty standard fantasy/adventure/Rare-fare, but designed meticulously and with much flair.



For instance, the Badlands are definitely not your regular hub-world. The battle between the trolls and elves is raging on in full force, leading to some highly impressive visuals. If you want, you can join in on the fun and slay a few trolls together with your comrades, but if you just want to just concentrate on the main tasks, get on a horse and smash your way through the enemy hordes. The different game environments that you will find yourself in are not very original (including that old videogame staple: the snow world), but again designed so well that you shouldn't really care. After I finished the main game I kept on adventuring, just to be able to enjoy these lush environments a little bit more. At times you find yourself in levels that conjure up feelings of wonder that I have not experienced in many games before Kameo. It's not just the main graphics, but also the many little details and effects that show you what the 360 can do when handled by a team that is capable of coming up with something special. This is all enhanced even further by the music and sound effects, which are pretty amazing in their own right.

And Kameo is just a lot of fun to play. Your main character handles very well, and the switching between monsters is completely hassle free. It's cool to find new monsters and discover what they can do. Some of these monsters are funny (a weird contraption named Flex, for instance), but others look very impressive. Even though the Dragon Ash was not the most handy monster to use in certain occasions, I kept selecting him just because it was a blast (excuse the pun) to have him set fire to all comers. Another good thing about these monsters is the fact that you can level them up with new abilities. Although this is not very extensive (and not even really necessary because you can beat most of the game using the basic moves) it is still fun to do.

Working your way through the levels is never boring or irritating. Not only thanks to most of the puzzels being pretty logical, but also thanks to the Wotnot book, which not only stores your monsters, but also gives you advice whenever you are stuck. This advice, given by a wizard named Ortho, is sometimes a bit too obvious (acting almost like a walkthrough for the game), but can come in handy when you are on your way to being stuck and frustration is setting in. The game is well balanced too, letting you explore new levels a bit before you have to come into action. The same thing can be said about the boss fights, which I found to be a lot more enjoyable than most boss fights in games. It never took me more than a few tries (if that) to defeat these bosses, but they did present a pretty tough challenge. It took almost half an hour to finish off the final boss, even though I was able to defeat him on my first go.



Many people are worried about Kameo being such a short game, but let me put your worries to rest. I too have read the stories that you can finish this game in 8 hours, but that's a ridiculous estimate. Since I wanted to complete this game so I could write a review about it, I mostly kept to the main story missions (finishing off many of the sub-missions after completing the main game). Even so, it took me about 13 hours to reach the end. And let me tell you that if you do decide to go for the sub-missions, and if you do want to try and open up all the abilities for your monsters, you are looking at 20+ hours easily. And that is even without counting the co-op mode, where you can finish story mode again, but this time together with a buddy.

So all in all, Kameo is a formidable challenge. If you expect something totally new, you are going to be dissapointed, but be honest to yourself: can you expect true originality from a launch game anymore? Probably not until the Revolution launches anyway. So, if you are looking for a well made, exciting game that will make go "oooh, that's pretty" every once in a while, Kameo is a very good choice.

Review Score: 9/10
By Patrick Rijnders, freelance editor

[Jordan88]

As anyone here preordered from comet instore?i have it says 11 units on the reciept and they rang me the other day to see which package i wanted i chose the premium with pdz and king kong bundle for £350 so hopefully it means ive actualy got one.Any one else no anything about preorders at comet?

[Caris]

I ahte to bring this up again folks but i thought they wouldnt be many "defect" units, but on the gamespot forums (sorry cba to get a link its a sticky and easy to find tho) LOADs of people are having prolems with there Xbox's even people who ahve tried the hanging of the power brick etc.

So i dont no whats gonna happen, most consoles are frezzign on PDZ the most. if microsoft of doing this "box" thing ill be so anrgy. they shoudl come to your house and collect, im not paying £200+ for a debuged console and shite service.

I'm not in the frame of mind, not owrrys about getting a 360, but now if itll work and for how long...

Good luck guys...

EDIT: heres the link.

http://www.gamespot.com/forums/show_msgs.php?topic_id=23998153

[Colin]

From Ocuk xbox 360 pre-order thread.

My gameplay order just says part-complete



The ad was never banned, its never been shown on TV, people just think its been banned, it was made to generate a buzz at games conferences/lans etc. and to be passed around the internet.

Yeah, you're right. Sorry. Everyone initially thought it was purely a TV based comercial, but now it seems apparent that it was aimed at the internet to create a "buzz" like you said.

Anyway, check this then, as it's kind of related to the advert. Haha. :laughing: (I'm loving these new smilies, whooooop)

Gun Battle (http://homepage.ntlworld.com/sean_casey/Gun%20fight.wmv)

[Caris]

thats FUCKING AMAZING!

[Oli1983uk]

has anyones gameplay status changed mine still says pre ordered.

[m_fergy]

has anyones gameplay status changed mine still says pre ordered.

mine says Ordered.

not long now till it will be saying shipped :)

[Haver]

That's a really fun advert. I mean, who hasn't done that?

[Owen]

I'm getting the fascia that was in the News Of The World on sunday, i think....It's blue/purpley. I won't be buying hardly any other fascias though, i really like the original white!

I'm getting a little worried about Gameplay dispatching on 'thursday'. I really think it would of been better to dispatch them tomorrow just to be certain, if i don't recieve mine on launch day there will be trouble! :nono:

:smile:

[ShavenWolf]

My Gameplay order says 'Part-Complete', but I think that's because I've swapped a couple of games round since ordering. Estimated shipping is still the 30/11-1/12

[Owen]

My Gameplay order says 'Part-Complete', but I think that's because I've swapped a couple of games round since ordering. Estimated shipping is still the 30/11-1/12

Mine just says 'preordered', but if you have had a game which has been dispatched in the same order as the Xbox 360 it would say part-complete.

Game are now shipping games to customers, i don't know if i would prefer them to ship earlier then the console or all arrive together?

together me thinks! :D

[JonSt]

It does say part complete if you have cancelled something and replaced it. There is no problem with gameplay's despatch methods, they use courier so you will definantly get it on launch day. Just a shame they use city link, which could take up to 5pm to get your console from them.

[DiemetriX]

Running Shareware/Homebrew on the 360: Just pulled it off!
www.360updates.com

[scubahood]

Gameplay won't let you down. I was hoping they would send them out Wednesday so i got it a day early but no worries. I'm planning a good old night of Halo and beers to make me sleepy on Thursday if not i'll never sleep cause of excitement

[cheets]

Gameplay isnt that far from me, leeds, so it should deffo get it on friday, but the GAME warehouse is in London.

[Jordan88]

Someone thinks he has found the problem of the 360 freezing from www.360updates.com (thanks for the link DiemetriX)

Ok for all of you out there (like me) who have been having the problem of your 360 freezing up then working again after unplugging everything and playing it back up (the cure i found out and the cure from microsoft themself) I have a way to avoid this problem. Do not plug in any devices to the USB ports after the console has booted up. Yes, that includes controllers. Im not sure what the problem is (finding drivers for the approiate devices i guess), but it will cause your 360 to freeze.

If not right away, sometimes soon. This also includes unhooking any USB devices. This came to me when I went out and boght a wireless controller today and a play and charge kit. I had my wired hooked up to play Kameo (beat it too btw) while my wireless was charging. When it was done I switched over by unplugging the wired then the wireless and then making the wireless one the Controller One. After about 30 minutes it crashed. I then tested it and it seems this will cause the system to crash 30 minutes to an hour (of gameplay time) after a change has been made to the USB ports. This seems to be a problem with firmware wich more then likely will never be fixed unless u send it in to be. But, hey, at least we know the problem and how to avoid it.

[Caris]

Damn....theres like all these problems with the 360.

This USB thing
Disk Scratching
Overheating (psu)
Overheating (none psu)
Frezzeing
Harddrives not working
Not loading Disks up.

This is Terrible....

[rokhed00]

Got an email from Woolies today, my 360 is on its way.
May even get it early.

[Caris]

Damn you rokhed...

[m_fergy]

quick question:

i dont think i will be able to get router connected to the xbox with the Ethernet Cable :( so is there a connector so you can connect 2 ov them together so i will be able to connect it to my xbox ??

thx

*edit*

dont matta iv found a site that sells a 5m cable

[Moz La Punk]

Called the Free Record Shop where I pre-ordered mine a few months ago... they told me I had nothing to worry, they're getting way enough for every pre order.

Friday is going to be awesome.

[Owen]

Now i'm confused.

Gameplay have just stated to me that the games will be sent out seperately unless they can't fit in the box with the 360! (but how big will be the box?)

He said the games are dispatched Wednesday (for release, more like thursday ;-) ) while the console is dispatched thursday for friday (like we knew)

Problem being is i've preordered 6 launch titles with Gameplay, i don't like the idea of all of them coming seperately by Royal Mail! Thats 6 different boxes the postman will have to bring me? lol

With my Gamecube, Gameplay put everything i preordered for launch day in a massive box, perhaps that would of been better?

Roll on Friday! So i can just have it all now! :smile:

[CooInTheZoo]

Yeah, you're right. Sorry. Everyone initially thought it was purely a TV based comercial, but now it seems apparent that it was aimed at the internet to create a "buzz" like you said.

Anyway, check this then, as it's kind of related to the advert. Haha. :laughing: (I'm loving these new smilies, whooooop)

Gun Battle (http://homepage.ntlworld.com/sean_casey/Gun%20fight.wmv)


Oh my god, MEMORIES!! I fucking love Spaced, its genious!! Cheers.

[scubahood]

Yea i remember them packing it all together with me. What I hope doesn't happen is Gameplay send my games out Wednesday and then Royal Mail sods up and get the games to me 11am Friday when the postie comes. The onto the console that gets sent out on the Thursday and arrives first thing Friday I will have two hours to wait for games!!! Ok after writing all of this it wouldn't be to bad i could just mess about with the dash board sorry if you read all that

[CooInTheZoo]

[17:10] Cari$: 4 Days: IT CAME
[17:10] Cari$: 4 Days: YES!!!!!!!!!11111111111
[17:10] Cari$: 4 Days: EARLY AS FUCK
[17:10] Cari$: 4 Days: I LVOE AROGS
[17:10] Cari$: 4 Days: :DDD:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:Dd


What the HELL?!!

[Garden_Pigeon]

As anyone here preordered from comet instore?i have it says 11 units on the reciept and they rang me the other day to see which package i wanted i chose the premium with pdz and king kong bundle for £350 so hopefully it means ive actualy got one.Any one else no anything about preorders at comet?

Yeah I preordered in Comet, my dad works there so i get 30% off (w00tness) and Im gauranteed to get one

[Ice9]

[17:10] Cari$: 4 Days: IT CAME
[17:10] Cari$: 4 Days: YES!!!!!!!!!11111111111
[17:10] Cari$: 4 Days: EARLY AS FUCK
[17:10] Cari$: 4 Days: I LVOE AROGS
[17:10] Cari$: 4 Days: :DDD:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:Dd


What the HELL?!!

Maybe he got his 360?
I work in Argos and we got all the stock on sunday. Although it was bandaged in tape:

http://img481.imageshack.us/img481/9098/3602.jpg

[CooInTheZoo]

You work in Argos?!! I ordered from argos, do you know when they are being put in the post?

[Caris]

Well if you replyed Coo, i was gonna play a trick i done to my mate on msn, i put my webcam on and put a magazine vocer so u could only see the disk tray o the webcam and he thought i got mine...

i have reached a new level of boredem.

[Owen]

Well if you replyed Coo, i was gonna play a trick i done to my mate on msn, i put my webcam on and put a magazine vocer so u could only see the disk tray o the webcam and he thought i got mine...

i have reached a new level of boredem.

LOL! :laughing:

I'm so bored you wouldn't believe! Time seems to be going slow now!

:indeed: :hehe:

[Caris]

Pm me your msn we can talk xbox 360 allllllllllllllll nite long :)

[Bowser57]

Sounds like you're in there Owen!

[Caris]

oh B.t.w , gimmie a WOOP WOOP! for Argos!

[JonSt]

Me thinks you guys should either get a room or get it more. The choice is up to you.

[Bren]

im nervous about this release, queing up in ASDA for hours on end doesnt sound fun

N_N T_T

[JonSt]

Those stupid faces are also not fun.

[Caris]

cheers up lads...

[Bren]

Yer gotta be happy , 2 days from now ill be in ASDA waiting , probly with a mcdonalds on my lap





o almost forgot,

N_N T_T

[JonSt]

My console has entered packing, all is good.

[Caris]

good good N_N T_T

[JonSt]

good good N_N T_T


Stop being GAY, you are clearly a wanker if you use those faces, we all know ray was, with the help of his dino friend.

[ZeldaFreak]

Stop being GAY, you are clearly a wanker if you use those faces, we all know ray was, with the help of his dino friend.

I want a clean fight!

:bouncy: :bouncy: :bouncy:

[CooInTheZoo]

HAHA grab a spoon!!

no, no, the wooden spoons!

Good, now smack each other with them!

*stands back and watches*

[Caris]

lOlz!!!!!!!!1111111111

[Ashley]

Stop being GAY, you are clearly a wanker if you use those faces, we all know ray was, with the help of his dino friend.

What did Ray ever do really, he seemed ncie enought to me. So he used n_n and t_t. Its an idiom.

Back to 360...

[Caris]

yes back to 360 indeed...

[CooInTheZoo]

Have you lot noticed the next-gen consoles look really plain?? Like they have no identities..

[Caris]

Holy Shit. Ebay (http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/XBox-360-Limited-Edition-Faceplate-E3-2005_W0QQitemZ8236396367QQcategoryZ112846QQssPageN ameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem)

[CooInTheZoo]

Go to IGN and download the Perfect Dark Zero video review. NOW!!

Its the best looking game ive seen!! Wow, this looks so damn hot. MUCH better looking than Kameo, lets hope it plays well too

[Caris]

Got it few days a go, really good!

[Stocka]

Go to IGN and download the Perfect Dark Zero video review. NOW!!

Its the best looking game ive seen!! Wow, this looks so damn hot. MUCH better looking than Kameo, lets hope it plays well too

Sure does look pretty awesome, AI and story seem pretty disappointing though.

Heck it looks so much better in motion.

[Bowser57]

Perfect Dark Zero review up at EDGE. (http://www.edge-online.co.uk/archives/2005/11/review_perfect.php) 7/10 Says EDGE.

[Caris]

7/10 from edge, Damn thats good.

[DiemetriX]

One more day to i get my 360 :D
yay :D
if i'm lucky i'm getting it today :)


http://llamma.com/xbox360/images/blue360/112905%20120.jpg
Some one has alot of time and money on their hands. Fan mod :|
with a 60GB hardisk (+20GB)

[Caris]

Thats Awsome really, really impresive.

Meh, Makes me want mine even more.

[cheets]

my setup (i wish) some yank with a FW900 monitor, mine should look sweet on my hyudai l90d+ with a response rate of 8ms :D

http://ded.zenblue.net/FW900/Xbox360/Perfect_Dark_level2.jpg

[CooInTheZoo]

In 2 days time...

[Owen]

I really want that LE faceplate, but there is no-way i'm paying £100+ for something that could actually be released in the future, you never know!

2 DAYS TO GO! Well 1 day really and around 14 hours or something...lol

I watched Gamespots video review of PDZ and must say it looks fantastic!

One question though, can you ride a jet-pack in multiplayer? I think i remember seeing a screenshot of like a desert town with someone on a jet-pack? That would be SO cool!

:awesome:

[scubahood]

I swear xbox 360 has taken over my life. I'm having trouble getting to sleep because i'm so excited which then when it comes to morning i've been missing college cause i'm so tired. Then when i do wake up i spend my time browsing xbox forums.

[cheets]

eek, everyday i wake up, a day closer to friday. :D

[scubahood]

indeed we all do once todays over it will fly by

[dukkadukka]

you're all mentalists.

[ShavenWolf]

2 days til the smell of new console wafts through our rooms, 2 days til boxes and plastic wraps are thrown across our carpets, 2 days til an all night PGR3 fun-fest!!

[Oli1983uk]

play.com has shipped a game i ordered from them! thou still no change in my pre order status at gameplay.com

[JonSt]

you're all mentalists.

And you are clearly just stupid

[Oli1983uk]

well it has been sent!
http://hometown.aol.co.uk/Oli1983uk/gameplay.jpg

Edit:

just check my account gameplay.com hasnt taken anything out of my account but Woolworths has! i only order an xbox 360 prem pack from them just over a week ago in store!

[m_fergy]

well it has been sent!
http://hometown.aol.co.uk/Oli1983uk/gameplay.jpg

Edit:

just check my account gameplay.com hasnt taken anything out of my account but Woolworths has! i only order an xbox 360 prem pack from them just over a week ago in store!

will u get it on thur then m8 ??

[ShavenWolf]

Fuckfuckfuck... I hope mine says that before tonight! :D

Sheesh... look at me! I'm beginning to sound like owen!

[Oli1983uk]

dont think so but hoping! as when i ordered Mk:DS from them i didnt get it for 3 days after it was sent out but that was by normal post and the console is coming via city link! so fingers crossed! will update 2moz to say if i have recivied anything!

[ShavenWolf]

When I pre-ordered my DS off Gameplay, they sent it out on the Wednesday using City Link (as far as I remember) and I got that the next day. So who knows!

[m_fergy]

the last post is 5 isnt it ?? a hope my order says that on gameplay before 5 like

[ShavenWolf]

It might be later because they're not using Royal Mail. And there's probably a delay between the order status and where it really is. I mean, it could be being picked now, but the site hasn't been updated.

[laura_inthesky]

woo!! My Gameplay order has been 'Dispatched'. I reckon there's a serious chance of a Thursday delivery now.

[Oli1983uk]

my status has now changed on gameplay.com to dispatched! yay!

[ShavenWolf]

Mine still says 'Pre-Ordered'...

[CooInTheZoo]

ARGH still cant log in to Argos, so i dont know what the hell is going on with mine

fingers crossed though eh?

[The3rdChildren]

I've called numerous places, and it's all starting to look kind of bleak. The Tesco nearby WILL be selling them at midnight, and Asda is apparently planning on starting sales at around 7am when their electronics department opens.

I may go down to Asda at 12 and try to convince them to sell me one on the grounds other stores are doing the exact same, but I doubt I'll have any luck. In that case I may remain there until 7am like a terribly ill/tired bastard waiting for a console. Jesus, this is going to suck ass. I'm really just starting to want to forget about the whole thing and just save my money.

[Caris]

URRRRRRRRRR!!! Gamestation had all of the xboxs ehind the counter...you could see them!!!! i wish i nicked one now...

[Caris]

Oh btw Owen, you can use the jetpack in multi.

[JonSt]

My 360 has been desptached by gameplay. PGR 3, Kameo and play and charge kit are currently being picked, getting dispatched today. PDZ LE and RGB cable still say pre ordered.

[ShavenWolf]

Mine *still* says pre-ordered for everything, even though I did get an email saying I'll be getting one on launch...

[JonSt]

Just talked to the guy on gameplay, it says despatched - it ctually means will be sent tomorow. No one will be getting early, so he says.

[Owen]

Oh btw Owen, you can use the jetpack in multi.

Cool! Thanks!

See everyone is getting way excited now aren't they? :D :yay:

I'm going to check my Gameplay order now, you'll get the games tomorrow probably but the console won't arrive till friday!

:D

[Caris]

Just talked to the guy on gameplay, it says despatched - it ctually means will be sent tomorow. No one will be getting early, so he says.

Cool so i was right about everyone gets theres on Fri. well the ASDA bunch including me might get ares at 11:55+ :P

[Oli1983uk]

the money for my woolworths orders was taken out 2 days ago! and on my order comfirmation it says the money will be takern when the item is shipped!

[Owen]

All my stuff stills says 'preordered' in the account!

I don't care that much, but people on www.xbox.com who ordered much later then the 17/08 have games dispatched and everything on there accounts!

Neil on live-help stated it makes no difference what the account says, everyone will be getting there stuff on friday!

or are they just saying that to hide the fact it could come a day earlier?

I'm expecting mine friday!

:D

[scubahood]

Mine still says pre ordered i wouldn't bother getting to excited because you'll only be disappointed tomorrow. I wonder what time they will be sent tomorrow from gameplay? Can't wait to see mine finally say dispatched after something like 3 months

[Caris]

I'll post pics of mine at 12:30 2moro night :P

[Garden_Pigeon]

My dad just told me today that my 360 is waiting in comet, but im not allowed it till friday :sad: I bet is so lonley

[Bren]

I'll post pics of mine at 12:30 2moro night :P

yer me too, hail camera phones

[Stocka]

Saw a rather odd 360 advert during Lost, and then a really cinematic advert for PDZ. Didn't understand what the hell was going on though :heh:

[Caris]

Fatrox, ive heard asda are giving the 1st people tickets and they make you come back at 12. so u can go home!!!!! im going for 8 2moro at asda its gonna be really busy ive heard.

[Bren]

i phoned up mine, and theyre not giving out any tickets, first come, first serve.

[Caris]

Lol so what time you waiting from?

[Ormingstoke]

hoorah, my copy of perfect dark is "dispatching soon" off amazon (where strangely the limited edition was the same price as the regular one), now just hope Woolies werent lying when they said my xbox would arrive tomorrow or friday.

dont get to play it till xmas though.

[scubahood]

whos gonna be gay and buy the christmas add on for kameo? I probably will lol

[Bren]

hmm going at about 3 - 4 , taking about 20 quid for munch/magazines, and 2 mates to pass the time by lol

[Bren]

hoorah, my copy of perfect dark is "dispatching soon" off amazon (where strangely the limited edition was the same price as the regular one), now just hope Woolies werent lying when they said my xbox would arrive tomorrow or friday.

dont get to play it till xmas though.

yer my pdz se just turned to dispatching, and my bank acnt says i cant withdraw the 40 quid, so shud get here by friday, and hopefully ill get me 360 tmw night, if not its ebay for me :'(

[Aimless]

hoorah, my copy of perfect dark is "dispatching soon" off amazon (where strangely the limited edition was the same price as the regular one), now just hope Woolies werent lying when they said my xbox would arrive tomorrow or friday.

dont get to play it till xmas though.
I just ordered that, too. I'm not buying a 360 yet, but I thought I might as well get the game for when I do.

Admittedly it's likely as exclusive as Halo 2's Not-So-Limited Edition, but I can't imagine me getting either version for cheaper than £40 in a few months anyway*.

*Well, maybe from bargain bins...

[Bren]

24 hours left.

Cant wait.

[Caris]

go sooner than 3-4 my ASDA told be to go before dinner time latest...

so im going up at 8am, no gits stealing my preuim Package.

EDIT: Actully this COULD be the last post i make in this thread beofre i get my 360.

Shit. Next Gen is less than a day away, im sahking with excitment. :bouncy:

[Bren]

Good luck young caris, go forth and get your 360.

Batter some heads if you need.

[Owen]

My Gameplay order still says 'pre-ordering'. If i find out that someone who ordered later then me, gets there 360 today or something i'm going to be a scrooge and tell Microsoft that Gameplay have released the Xbox360 for Thursday release! :angry:

Of course i wouldn't :) ......OR WOULD I?????????????? :angry:

Anyway..the waiting is kinda over now, tomorrow is the day and many are getting theres 12:00pm tonight!

Finally the day has come that i (hopefully) check my account and it states dispatched! :yay: :yay: :yay: :bouncy:

EDIT: They must of read my death-threat as my xbox360 is now being picked! YEAH!

[m_fergy]

aye me 360 has been dispatched :yay:

cant wait till the morra. this week has flew over cant believe its fri already.

hope to see yous all on live the morra : peace:

[ShavenWolf]

Huzzah! My 360's 'Being Picked'!

Now waiting for Kameo, PGR3, PDZ, 'war-shooty game' and the play and charge kit to say the same thing.

[cheets]

my game 360 has been shipped and my gameplay is being picked

[Owen]

My 360 from gameplay has been 'being picked' for ages, what in gods name are you doing whoever is 'picking it' HURRY UP! :wink:

and my games are still preordered, which is kinda worrying because i would hate not to get them with the console tomorrow! Also my plug and play kit and extra controller is still preordered!

Thankfully my Xbox360 order had Kameo and PDZ in it, all thats being picked!

Still everything will most probably be fine when i recieve it tomorrow! :laughing:

It's so fun and exciting! ;)

[scubahood]

My 360 is now being picked games are still on pre-order and my play and charge kit has been sent from play.com

[The3rdChildren]

Just been reading a few forums. There are ALREADY people waiting at Asda stores, and probably Tesco stores too. How crazy is that? It isn't even midday yet.

[Owen]

Just been reading a few forums. There are ALREADY people waiting at Asda stores, and probably Tesco stores too. How crazy is that? It isn't even midday yet.

I knew that was going to happen, this console is in HUGE demand and i mean HUGE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Good Luck Asda campers!

:smile:

[scubahood]

lol they've only got another 11 hours and 45 minutes to go

[cheets]

from a friend who works at Asda

Basically Ive been in work (asda) tonight (wednesday), and I was looking at the xbox 360 stuff in the office.

We're the biggest asda in the company, and from the 300,000 available in europe at launch we've got 18: 8 core and 10 full packages. Out of the how ever many asda's there are in the UK, only 60 stores have 360's for launch. Anyone near Milton Keynes get down there, they have the biggest allocation (20) out of all the asda's

Anyway at our store, the queue opens at 12 midday tomorrow (thursday), you get there and get given a token (ie. if youre the first person that asks for a core package you get token 1C, 1F if you want the full package)

You can have breaks of no loner than 20mins (sounds like work lol), and every hour a colleague will come and check you're still in the queue. If you miss 2 hourly checks you get scrubbed off the list.

If after 12 hours of sheer boredom stood in a queue listening to xmas songs on the radio and being stared at by passing customers, you can still walk over to the music and video counter, you will be rewarded with your shiny new console at 12.01am, Fri 2 dec.

Speaking to the manager, he says we will get more before xmas but I doubt he has that in writing.

should be fun to watch, gonna nip down at midnight to see if the games are on sale.

[Nintenchris]

Just wanna say good luck to Caris, who i know is standing at ASDA as we speak!!!

[cheets]

Just wanna say good luck to Caris, who i know is standing at ASDA as we speak!!!

jesus, hope he gets one, i am gonna nip down to asda at midnight, got work first.

[Moz La Punk]

AH HELL YEAH! Just got off the phone with my store, they have my 360 RIGHT NOW. Can pick it up starting tomorrow 9am.

This weekend will rule.

[m_fergy]

Just wanna say good luck to Caris, who i know is standing at ASDA as we speak!!!

aye gd luck m8 hope ya get 1

[m_fergy]

mines now been dispatched :D

wanna say thx to gameplay for this as i know the 360 is hard to get every where is sold out

thx gameplay :bowdown:

[Domstercool]

GAME just like to tease me don't they, just to rub it in my face, I got a email

"I am delighted to let you know that your Preorder for Xbox 360 Console will be with you shortly. The order will be despatched by your chosen delivery method in time to reach you for the morning of release."

I know i aren't getting one as they emailed me the other week, but this is just pushing it too far, damn jokers. ¬_¬

[Moz La Punk]

GAME just like to tease me don't they, just to rub it in my face, I got a email

"I am delighted to let you know that your Preorder for Xbox 360 Console will be with you shortly. The order will be despatched by your chosen delivery method in time to reach you for the morning of release."

I know i aren't getting one as they emailed me the other week, but this is just pushing it too far, damn jokers. ¬_¬

Print the mail, take it to the store and steal a 360.

[Owen]

mines now been dispatched :D

wanna say thx to gameplay for this as i know the 360 is hard to get every where is sold out

thx gameplay :bowdown:


Same here!

Thanks Gameplay! :bowdown:

[trisha]

i have just played on an xbox360.


the controller is great
the looks are great
the visuals are great


if it was badged "nintendo" there wouldnt be a nintendo fan who wouldnt buy it.

its stunning.

[Oli1983uk]

my gameplay has been dispatched but they havent takern any money yet! anyone else had there money takern from gameplay?

[rokhed00]

GAME just sent me an email saying my 360s on it's way, despite them sending me an email before saying I wasn't in the first batch.

Looks like I'll have 2 of them tomorrow then.
Ebay here I come.

[Meik]

Same here!

Thanks Gameplay! :bowdown:

Also i may well be selling a Xbox360 premium pack from tomorrow, although i cannot 100% confirm this, once i know and it's on ebay i'll let you guys know so you can bid on it if you like! I have well over 100 feedback and all but one are positive (someone gave me a negative because i didn't recieve their money, i mean WTF?).

So you can 100% trust me! I've sold on this board as well a couple of times.

Hope that helps anyone who cannot get one! :smile:So you're going to help out your fellow forum users by selling it for thrice the price on eBay! Brilliant! You, sir, are a king among men.

[CompSci]

So you're going to help out your fellow forum users by selling it for thrice the price on eBay! Brilliant! You, sir, are a king among men.

lol i was thinking th eexact same thing, but hey as my old business studies teacher once said " its supply and demand, if morans wanna pay a high price is instead of waiting, then let erm"

[ShavenWolf]

Woohoo!!

http://img336.imageshack.us/img336/3959/gameplay6cx.jpg

:bowdown:

I hope I get everything tomorrow!

[CooInTheZoo]

Bloody Argos are having problems so i cant check up on my baby (what should i call her? I was thinking Grettle) HOPEFULLY still coming tomorrow wohay!!

Good luck everyone, and POST PICTURES when it comes!

[Jordan88]

I must say wats getting me hyped most is the marketplace with free trailers for all the game demos of game inc fifa and kameo and then theres the themes and gamer pics i wasnt gonna bother buying any microsoft points but some of these themes and pics look ace i think ill get the rare and pdz theme and the condemned and cod pics check them out http://www.xbox.com/en-US/live/marketplace/gamerpictures.htm
EDIT heres what should be available at launch for download taken from xbox.com
Amped® 3 (2K Sports)
Game trailer (free)
10 gamer pictures (20 points each)
One theme (150 points)

Call of Duty® 2 (Activision, Inc.)
Game trailer (free)
Seven gamer pictures (20 points each)
Two gamer picture bundles (40–80 points each)
One theme (150 points)

Condemned: Criminal Origins™ (SEGA®)
Game trailer (free)
10 gamer pictures (20 points each)
One theme (150 points)

FIFA 06: Road to FIFA World Cupâ„¢ (Electronic Arts)
Game trailer (free)
EA SPORTSâ„¢ trailer (free)
Game demo (free)
FIFA team logo gamer pictures (60 points each)
FIFA team logo themes (150 points each)

GUNâ„¢ (Activision, Inc.)
Game trailer (free)
Five gamer pictures (20 points each)
One gamer picture bundle (80 points)
One theme (150 points)

Kameo™: Elements of Power™ (Microsoft Game Studios and Rare®)Winter warrior pack (200 points)
Game trailer (free)
Game demo (free)
Four gamer pictures (20 points each)
Two gamer picture five-pack bundles (80 points each)
Seven themes (150 points each)

Madden NFL 06 (Electronic Arts)
Game trailer (free)
EA SPORTS trailer (free)
NFL logo gamer pictures (60 points each)
Collection of all NFL logo gamer pictures (500 points)
NFL logo themes (150 points each)

NBA 2K6 (2K Sports)
Game trailer (free)

NBA Live 06 (Electronic Arts)
EA SPORTS trailer (free)
Game demo (free)

Need for Speedâ„¢ Most Wanted (Electronic Arts)
Game trailer (free)
Game demo (free)

NHL® 2K6 (2K Sports)
Game trailer (free)

Perfect Dark Zeroâ„¢ (Microsoft Game Studios and Rare)
Game trailer (free)

Peter Jackson's King Kongâ„¢ (Ubisoft)
Game demo (free)
Game trailer (free)

Project Gotham Racing® 3 (Microsoft Game Studios and Bizarre Creations Ltd.)
Game trailer (free)

QUAKEâ„¢ 4 (Activision, Inc.; id Software Inc.; and Raven Software Corp.)
Game trailer (free)
Seven gamer pictures (20 points each)
One theme (150 points)

Tiger Woods PGA TOUR® 06 (Electronic Arts)
EA SPORTS trailer (free)

Tony Hawk's American Wasteland (Activision, Inc.)
Game trailer (free)
10 gamer pictures (20 points)
One gamer picture bundle (80 points)
One theme (150 points)
Plus:

High-definition music video "Show Me How to Live" from Audioslave's Live in Cuba DVD
"Do You Want To" music video from Franz Ferdinand's new album, You Could Have It So Much Better
Aeon Flux HD movie trailer from Paramount
Pulse HD movie trailer from Magnolia Pictures
Penny Arcade gamer pictures and themes
Red vs. Blue videos
High-definition movie trailers and music videos
Game trailers for upcoming games
… and much more!
The exclusive launch content also includes the next-generation Xbox Live Arcade online service, which is fully integrated into the Xbox 360 Dashboard providing a central destination for Xbox 360 gamers to download new games, access their game collections, check out new releases, and experience around-the-game features. Xbox Live Arcade games will be available for 400, 800, or 1200 Points, with a majority of titles priced at 800 points or less.

Xbox Live Arcade for Xbox 360 games that will be available on November 22 include:

Bankshot Billiards 2™ (1200 points) – pixelStorm, Inc.
Bejeweled 2 (800 points) – Popcap Games
Gauntlet (400 points) – Midway Games, Inc.
Geometry Wars Retro Evolved (400 points) – Bizarre Creations
Hardwood Backgammon (400 points) – Silver Creek Entertainment
Hardwood Hearts (400 points) – Silver Creek Entertainment
Hardwood Spades (400 points) – Silver Creek Entertainment
Hexic® HD (full version included free with Xbox 360 System) – Microsoft Game Studios
Joust (400 points) – Midway Home Entertainment
Mutant Storm Reloaded (800 points) – PomPom Games
Outpost Kaloki (800 points) – Wahoo Studios
Robotron 2084 (400 points) – Midway Games, Inc.
Smash TV (400 points) – Midway Games, Inc.
Wik: Fable of Souls (800 points) – Reflexive Entertainment
Zuma (800 points) – Popcap Games
In addition, each Xbox Live Arcade game on Xbox 360 offers a fully playable trial version, enabling gamers to experience their favorite arcade games in high-definition before deciding to purchase.

"We're incredibly excited about providing gamers with what they want—inexpensive and entertaining digital content delivered right to their Xbox 360," says Peter Moore, Corporate Vice President of Worldwide Marketing and Publishing for Xbox® at Microsoft. "Xbox Live Marketplace puts the buying power directly into the consumer's hands, allowing each person to choose digital content they want, when they want it."

[Owen]

GAMEPLAY have totally just upset me. The console dispatching was great but the rest was a complete shambles... :weep:

The problem? Dispatching NONE of my preordered games but taking the money out!! of my debit card and not allowing to cancel my orders. I would not of even known of i didn't bother ringing up. :nono:

Tony Hawks, Condemned, Call Of Duty 2, Project Gotham Racing 3, Plug and Play Kit, Wireless Controller NONE OF IT will be dispatched until tomorrow! Not a problem you say? Well i'm sorry it is, it clearly states order now for delivery on day of release, and a company should never take money out of your card without dispatching the goods, theres well over £150+ taken out of my card and i have nothing coming for it! :nono:

Well thats it, NO-MORE, i cannot be bothered to keep looking at a damn account which is never updated and has no useful information.

*Oh and by the way, if you have not bought the games in the same order as your Xbox360 then this applies to you too! Some haven't even got a god-damn game coming to play on the console! What a joke*

THANKS SO MUCH GAMEPLAY for dampning my excitement just a bit. Your lucky i believe in second-chances.... :(

[JonSt]

That is not completely accurate, i have an RGB cable and PDZ LE that wont be dispatched till tomorrow it looks like. PGR3 and Kameo are on their way though, and i ordered them seperately from the 360 as did i the play and charge kit.

[ShavenWolf]

Of my Gameplay order, the premium pack, PGR3, Kameo and the Play and Charge kit have been dispatched. However, PDZ Limited Edition and 'war-shooty game' are still on pre-order. Maybe it could be good if they don't get dispatched today, so I've got more to look forward to on Saturday morning!

(Although I would prefer to have them tomorrow...)

[scubahood]

That is pretty shitty if i were you i'd use games rental service

[Owen]

That is not completely accurate, i have an RGB cable and PDZ LE that wont be dispatched till tomorrow it looks like. PGR3 and Kameo are on their way though, and i ordered them seperately from the 360 as did i the play and charge kit.

Well thats even more unfair then. I preordered my extra controller and my plug and play kit on the 17/08 and that should of been dispatched if they did it in the correct order. (WHICH THEY DIDN'T)

I swear to god the people who preordered a core-pack just last week had a better service then me and the others who preordered EARLY.

What aload of b*llocks! I'm sorry if i'm making something out of nothing but for weeks i've been told it will all arrive on the same-day! I think i wouldn't be so mad if they would of let me cancel the games....

:cry:

[Retro_Link]

Pre-ordered an Xbox 360 Core pack today; Collecting it tomorrow!!
Easy!!

Oh and here's a great video review of Perfect Dark Zero;
http://www.gametrailers.com/player.php?id=8592&type=wmv

[Stocka]

The hunt begins! (I'm hoping to get a Xbox 360 Premium Pack before Xmas, aint preordered) as that is what my xmas present is going to be.

My Mum is going in the city tommorow and is going to look around, although I doubt she will find one. 24 days to go :heh:

In Norwich there is the following:

Whsmith x 2
Game x 2
Gamestation
Woolworths
Toys R Us
Asda
HMV x 2
Chips(indepent games specialist store)
Virgin Megastore
Dixons
PC World
Curries

...I mean come on, one of them must have one :wink:

[Bowser57]

THANKS SO MUCH GAMEPLAY for dampning my excitement just a bit. Your lucky i believe in second-chances.... :(

They're thanking their lucky stars for that, I'm sure.

[Oli1983uk]

just checked my account and gameplay has taken the money along with play.com, so i should be getting a xbox 360, PGR 3, Fifa 06 and an extra wireless controler!

[Owen]

They're thanking their lucky stars for that, I'm sure.

Well considering i have done over 75 orders with them in the last two-three years and have spent well over £2500 i believe they should be.

I also think they should get there priorities right and deal with their best customers first and those who preordered early then the people who preordered much much later. NOTHING was done in pre-order order concerning the Xbox360, so that totally fecks up the whole point of preordering doesn't it?

If i don't recieve my games on saturday there will be hell to pay, espicially as they have taken the money now. :angry:

I won't be preordering anymore consoles with Gameplay, so much easier to go into a shop and pick everything up! :)

[rokhed00]

Well considering i have done over 75 orders with them in the last two-three years and have spent well over £2500 i believe they should be.

I also think they should get there priorities right and deal with their best customers first and those who preordered early then the people who preordered much much later. NOTHING was done in pre-order order concerning the Xbox360, so that totally fecks up the whole point of preordering doesn't it?

If i don't recieve my games on saturday there will be hell to pay, espicially as they have taken the money now. :angry:

I won't be preordering anymore consoles with Gameplay, so much easier to go into a shop and pick everything up! :)


Meh, stop your bloody moaning, at least you're getting your 360, plenty of others aren't.
Gameplay haven't shipped the games I ordered off them either but you don't see me moaning, do you?

[scubahood]

Thats cause you are the legend of RE Rokhed

[m_fergy]

lol unlucky Owen m8. my games, play & charge and 12 month live card all on diff orders all got shipped

[ShavenWolf]

I'm not totally surprised my CoD2 order hasn't been picked yet, as I only ordered it last night. But, sheesh, I'd have expected them to have posted PDZ Limited Edition by now... oh well, a day of PGR3 and Kameo it is tomorrow!

[CooInTheZoo]

My Hard Drive off gameplay hasnt shiped yet either :S

[cheets]

woot, just got home from work, and my gameplay order has been sent, my mate rang my local asda and people did start queue from 1pm.

[Meik]

Well thats even more unfair then. I preordered my extra controller and my plug and play kit on the 17/08 and that should of been dispatched if they did it in the correct order. (WHICH THEY DIDN'T)

I swear to god the people who preordered a core-pack just last week had a better service then me and the others who preordered EARLY.

What aload of b*llocks! I'm sorry if i'm making something out of nothing but for weeks i've been told it will all arrive on the same-day! I think i wouldn't be so mad if they would of let me cancel the games....

:cry:Heh.

You want to hear unfair? I ordered a 360 off Amazon ages ago. After having heard nothing from them by the start of this week, several emails were fired off in their direction, receiving nothing but automated responses. After browsing AVforums, I quickly found out that pretty much everyone was in the same boat.

Fast forward to tonight, and everyone on there is going mental. The console is released in an hour and NO-ONE who ordered when the option first came up (16/17th August) have recieved confirmation that they're getting one. Nobody's order page has changed, and all of them still say "Not Yet Dispatched". This includes myself. Don't believe me? Feel free to check out this thread (http://www.avforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=267712&page=1&pp=15) on the later pages.

Wanna know the real kick in the teeth? There have been reports flying in of people ordering late September/Early October of having their 360 orders dispatched today, whilst the earlybirds are still in the dark. With an hour to go.

In conclusion, stop acting like a little baby. You have 2 goddamn consoles confirmed. Games can be bought from any retail outlet tomorrow.

I wasn't even going to bother posting about my situation, but jesus, you're driving everyone mental.

[scubahood]

Here's a pic of my old xbox she told me she wanted to say goodbye to you all. I only adopted her about three months ago from cash converters but we certainly bonded she will be deeply missed when her auction on ebay ends tomorrow night

As i hope many of you will pictures of my brand new baby will be posted tomorrow BEFORE SHE HAS BEEN WIRED UP that way she will be fresh when you see her :yay:

[Jordan]

Owen, i pre-ordered mine on the 24th Aug off gameplay. I've emailed and phoned around to get my hands on a console, to no avail. Shut the fuck up, stop being a fucking prick.

You have your TWO consoles. So SHUT THE FUCK UP.

[scubahood]

just went to tesco heard they had some sold out whrn i got there at 11:45 anyway happy xbox day will be playing tomorrow

[ShavenWolf]

"Perfect Dark Limited Edition Backordered to 24/8/05"

What the....??

CoD2's been put to the 7th... may have to go to Game tomorrow.

[CompSci]

has any one got it?

[scubahood]

Apparently not pictures were promised around 12:30 i assume they ain't home yet or have common sense and are already playing

[Caris]

GOT MINE!!!!!!!!!! wow what a day waited 17 hours and got offerd a grand for it off a man going to play byeeeeeeeee

[scubahood]

Man i would of taken the greand but well one we'll have to have a game tomorrow when i get mine. On another note is a demo disk included if so what games and is the free face plate the standard white one?

[cheets]

look what i have







http://www.cheets.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/pgr3.jpg

but no 360 till tomorrow and i only paid £16