MPs vote on cameras to placed inside people's homes

[Wesley]

So I didn't see any threads on these new ID cards that MPs gave the backing to.

I personally don't like it one bit; with things like these once the ball starts to roll it won't stop and people's lives will just be further and further invaded by the government.

I can just see it now, once everyone are eventually forced to have one, then they will push for people using them with all public services. Businesses will then act on it, having to scan it when you are on the train to 'prove your age' (like when people try to get away with child tickets), then your movements could be tracked. I can just see in decades to come everyone have to use their ID cards for everything and basically 1984 becoming a reality as - what seems now to be - ridiculous things will be implemented because as the lines of private lives are moved back you can get away with more imposing things.

It's just a cycle that changes social attitude on one's private lives as we move closer and closer to removing any sense of private.

...what do you guys think?

[Domo Kun]

Although I'm against the principle of these ID cards, and agree that it's very 1984, our details are already in a billion government data bases. Which begs the question, why do we need to bother with them? We should make all new driving licences or passports have the unforgable technology. It seems like a waste of money to me.

[Wesley]

They claim it will help against terror, but I'm sure they said passports (as a proof of identify) wouldn't be able to be faked at one point. Anything that you come up with can be faked, people always find a way around things.

And also the data that is on it, irus scans and finger prints; what happens if that isn't enough? So then they ask for proper DNA for DNA information to be on the ID card too, "Even better proof! You can't fake this!"

[Domo Kun]

Hah! Agreed. But seriously, I don't see why they can't just make it so the next generation of passports have this super technology.

I may lobby my MP on this one... Can I be bothered... Hmm.

[rokhed00]

:bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown:

[Big Red]

its all wrong. evrer get the felling that when the west started to war again choice with your rights have gone out the window?

[Domo Kun]

Wait a tick, has it been voted on yet?

[Jordan]

Yes, yesterday. Its going ahead.
I can't see many flaws to this thing. If you haven't done anything bad theres nothing to hide.

Although the whole "stops terrorist" stuff is bull shit, it does mean random people can't walk in and just get free health care if they aren't UK citizens.

[weeyellowbloke]

Damn daft idea if you ask me. I can't see how it'll help with anything and will be a waste of time. I mean how will it stop terrorism:
"Hello, I would like to apply for an ID card"
"Ok just a few questions, are you a UK citizen?"
"Why yes I am
"Any criminal record?"
"Nope"
"Right, and are you a terrorist"
"Ye... oh shi..I mean no"

[Hellfire]

I don't reallyknow what you're talking about, but here in Portugal they're talking about a card that puts all cards in one that can be read electronically. I think that's great. Is that what you're talking about?

[gaggle64]

I don't like these. I just fail to see what they will achieve. It almost just sounds like another new form of identity theft waiting to happen and it will undoubtedly be hugely expensive to implement. I daren't even hazard a guess of what the government will do with the information that could be potentially avaliable to them.

Potentially the government could track your every movement, everything you buy or sell, everyone you meet, every phone call you make or message you write (although they do some of that now).

I know it's all just Orwell-esque conspiracy theories, but for me, the whole thing still doesn't fit. The whole point of ID cards seems to me to be to collect in one place a raft of information of any one indvidual, and that kind of knowledge could award someone immense power and control. I simply don't trust anyone with that kind of power. I'm not willing to take that risk.

[Ashley]

Just because the government can do all kinds of things with these ID cards, doesn't mean they will. This isn't the government finding a new way to give themself kicks, the won't be checking up on your average Joe's shopping trip to London.

[The Peeps]

Yes, yesterday. Its going ahead.
I can't see many flaws to this thing. If you haven't done anything bad theres nothing to hide.

Although the whole "stops terrorist" stuff is bull shit, it does mean random people can't walk in and just get free health care if they aren't UK citizens.

Yeah, I don't really see any major problems with it. They'll only look into things if you've got a criminal record or something and although it's not going to stop all terrorism, it will still do some good.

[Eenuh]

Potentially the government could track your every movement, everything you buy or sell, everyone you meet, every phone call you make or message you write (although they do some of that now).


Why would you need an ID to make phonecalls or buy stuff? It's not like they even have enough people and other recources to keep track of all this stuff. True, having iris scans on there might seem a bit far fetched, but I guess it's just the next step in all this. I was actually always amazed that the UK didn't really have any ID cards.
Seriously, I don't really see the problem with this...

[Big Red]

I don't reallyknow what you're talking about, but here in Portugal they're talking about a card that puts all cards in one that can be read electronically. I think that's great. Is that what you're talking about?

i dont think this is the same as i ahve heard of a similar thing in hong kong

my mate is tryin a simaler system out over hear asap cards

[MunKy]

The problem is they are trying to track our every movement. I'm against it firstly because I don't want the government knowing more than they already do and secondly because it will make sod all difference to immigration and terrorism like they say.

[Supergrunch]

In theory, the innocent have nothing to worry about...

But seeing as nobody is innocent, I'm against the idea.

[Arragaun]

Why would the govt want to know what boring fuckers like us do? Really, anybody who's read or seen any future-world sci-fi stuff should know that all this is inevitable.
Also, the Orwell stuff isn't totally on the dot. In 1984 the (I forget the govt's name) institute wanted to de-humanise every person, like, destroy even their sex drives.

I'm all for ID cards, 'cause like Jord said, if you have nothing to hide, then you've got nothing to fear.

[gaggle64]

I'm not nescerrly saying that as soon as these ID cards come into force we're all suddenly going to find ourselves wearing grey overalls and sipping Victory gin, but I still do worry. The big scare of George Orwells 1984, as I'm sure many who have read it will testify, is not simply that one day the world could be like that, but that elements of Orwells horrifiying vision already exsist in society across the world. It's a vision which I would like to stay as far away from as possible.

It's true, the government probably won't try anything wildly insidious with it, but that doesn't mean I should trust them with the capability to do so. I will admit that I have varying opinions on the methods deployed by the government to monitor us, but I feel it is a fundemental human right for people to live their lives with a significant degree of anonymity and privacy. I feel that ID cards encroach unnescerrly on that, and I would seriously consider to refuse to carry an ID card if ordered to do so.

[Big Red]

as they can already ship you off to quantanamo bay have you tortured and vanish without evidance inocent or not.............why would you want the dodgy fu..ers to no your every move

[Arragaun]

Thing is, we live in the government's world. They've got all the power, and we can either do what they say and live in a kind of blissful ignorance, or leave.

Or we could vote on it and make the process a lot more drawn out.

Or we could revolt and make a big fucking mess. Which ain't good.

as they can already ship you off to quantanamo bay have you tortured and vanish without evidance inocent or not.............why would you want the dodgy fu..ers to no your every move
What makes you so sure they're dodgy anyway?

[Platty]

Im all for it.

erm i have nothing else to say really.

End.

[Big Red]

i watch the news i read the papers and i no history what else am i supposed to think
their as dodgy as al capone

[gaggle64]

What makes you so sure they're dodgy anyway?
Those secret torture flights and kidnappings throughout Europe for a start. Stick "CIA kidnap" in the BBC search engine. Scary.

[Arragaun]

Aah I'm sure they've been doing that for decades anyway and I never worried about it before.
I wouldn't put it past them.

[Mundi]

This reminds me of a law that just passed last year in Iceland, it allows the police to check your phone records, tap your phones and look at what you doing on the internet (see what your downloading and uploading) without a warrant...
fecking police state
EDIT: and yeah i forgot one when it got passed almost noone noticed i had to explain this to everyone i know and very few believed me. All the attention this law got was a small clipping in the middle of the newspaper it´s like it was ignored that this was happening

[Haver]

It's important to remember that the legislation that passed through the Commons on Monday will now have to go before the House of Lords, who can stifle the passage of the legislation by voting against the legislation and offering amendments (essentially malforming the original content of the bill) if they so please. However, if the Lords choose to block the passage of the legislation, the government could use the Parliament Act to pass the bill without consent from the upper chamber.

Also, the legislation that went through the Commons on Monday didn't include a clause making ID Cards compulsory. That issue will be voted on at a later date by MPs. However, from 2008, anyone who applies for a passport will have to carry the Passport/ID Card hybrid and therefore have their biometric data entered into the database.

(That's why coverage hasn't been massive, because in parliamentary terms, things are far from over.)

[Dawn]

I do not see a problem with it - I think you would be paranoid to think that the Govenment is going to have the resources to track the movements of people who are not already on the police watch list, and if you are on the police watch list, you are doing something wrong. So stop it.

The thing in Iceland as well, thats interesting, but I bet the only people who have something to fear is those people who are into serious and organised crime, they are not going to tap phones, set up cameras and watch internet action on random people, they are going to do it on people they want to convict of something. It would be a massive waste of resources to bother with anything smaller.

[Pestneb]

personally, I think an ID card which held
1)driving status (non driver, provisional, driver (and which categories)
2)passport
3)Exam qualifications

would be useful. as well as obviously d.o.b, NI info etc.

it would be useful going into an interview, and popping your ID card in rather than filling out a application form.

however, it does depersonalise things, but we already are there.
how many people in your street do you know?
name, job, interests, relatives, friends. and in some cases, what do they look like?
people are too quick to shut themselves in, and are only interested in those who are the same as them.
on superficial things they were born with (age, gender, ethnicity) or more personal issues (political, religious, philosophical beliefs).

we're all "guilty". thing is, say in London, how can you know all those people? do you know 5 million people? 2 million? 1 million? 500,000?

thats why we (sadly) need these cards. but do we? because really, if I'm going to kill someone, or steal something from someone, a card isn't going to physically restrain me.
its a technique to know where you are, yes.
however, if traceability concerns us, really we ought to take into account our retina's, finger prints, DNA.
all these things make us traceable.

I think the importance isn't the cards, but the information on them and how they are used.
I think information such as driving license/exam results should only be on if the user volunteers.
information such as DNA profile/fingerprints/Iris scans etc being on there are fine. these are things about me which are physical, and out of my control.
information such as views and opinions - these should not be on there.

My personal opinion.
But I agree, they can be very dangerous, and I think its important that the use of these cards should be VERY carefully monitored, and potential abuse should be safe guarded against.

[Gaijin von Snikbah]

I dont think we have much choice if we wanna protect ourselves as much as possible. I dont think they will put cameras in normal peoples home, though mistakes could happen. It is either that or a reduced security situation.

[Kurtle Squad]

I think this is a good idea. I've got nothing to hide, so there's no point in worrying about it. All it does it makes things more secure, and easier for autorities to do things and find out stuff about you (big f-ing whoop).

Just think about it: Some **** is pulled over for driving like a cock on the road. The police don't ask for his name, they ask for his ID Card, meaning he cant lie or fuck them about without getting into a lot of trouble, this card could be the key to a lot of data about you.

Also, it'd be the law to have it on you and to do certain things right?!....So if the police are after a criminal, they would be able to track his card if he tried to do anything in which you'd need it. (Using public transport?! etc) Sure, they guy wouldnt be stupid enough to use it, but it means he wouldnt be able to do much when on the run.

[Haver]

Kurt, I think the price is an issue for a lot of people. As a family, at the government's (reportedly) low estimates, we'd have to fork out £600 for something that isn't going to radically improve our safety. Independent economists reckon we might have to TRIPLE that figure.

Say we took the billions and billions of pounds that it is going to cost to implement the scheme and put 10,000 more bobbies on the street? Or poured the cash into rehabilitation centres?

[Kurtle Squad]

Kurt, I think the price is an issue for a lot of people. As a family, at the government's (reportedly) low estimates, we'd have to fork out £600 for something that isn't going to radically improve our safety. Independent economists reckon we might have to TRIPLE that figure.

Say we took the billions and billions of pounds that it is going to cost to implement the scheme and put 10,000 more bobbies on the street? Or poured the cash into rehabilitation centres?

Or maybe they could actually make effective cops, y'know, guns, make it so they can't get done in for assault when somebody actually told the cop to put them in a bin....Even the Spanish have a way better poloce system than the UK in my opinion, they don't take any shit!!

[Arragaun]

I'd say that arming ordinary policemen would be an even bigger 1984 thing that ID cards. Normally when I see a police officer on the street I think, yeah, they'll take care of us, they got the mad combat skillz. If I saw a cop with a gun I'd be positively scared of him.
Hey kids, guns are bad.

[Monopolyman]

I do like the idea of ID cards, I suppose they can help control terrorism and check criminal records and all, but in my opinion, I think the money can be better spent. I liked the Lib Dems idea of spending the money planned for ID cards on putting more police officers on the street, which would probably be more practical aswell.

[darkcloud]

v.v;; I really can't believe how many people have a problem with this. >.>

I'm personally hoping these cards do go through. :) For one it's better for taking out then a passport which I defo don't want to end up losing..... Such a hassle to get them back. v.v;;

Anyone thinking they will invade there privacy is going mad. The government won't randomly go ooohhhh there's Mr. Smith lets check up on where he's been! It's only people that they would be trying to check up on now that should be worried.... And the majority of these people have a criminal record..... :-/

Anyway, my point is, they have no reason to look me up so I'm assuming they won't....... This also won't give them a massive insight into what you are doing.... I mean you took a tube one day... So what? It's not like they can physically see what you are doing. :-/ They can't see what you talk about with your friends out and about or even on the internet or phone..... To be perfectly honest I wouldn't really give a crap if they installed a camera in my room..... Unless they decided to make some random porn tape of me in which case I would kinda confused (much better choices out there ^^;; ) and I would want some money........ But yeah, it's not like one of these government officials are gunna come out of nowhere and go "Oh shit I saw you last night! Nice moves dude!" o.O

Like I said, not doing anything wrong and you really don't have anything to worry about. lol

[MunKy]

Were not worried that they will check on us, were worried that they can. Its an invasion of privacy which is the only thing we have. Even our money isnt ours.

[Strider]

so you would have to take your ID card where ever your go? I dont even take my mobile out... you could easy lose it and easy fork out another £???

I think its a waste of money and time.

[weeyellowbloke]

so you would have to take your ID card where ever your go? I dont even take my mobile out... you could easy lose it and easy fork out another £???

I think its a waste of money and time.

I see this a major problem I would have. I barely manage to remember to take my bank card out with me and I'm always losing keys, cards and hats. It'll just be a huge hassle and I imagine that getting a new ID card will be as hard as getting a new passport, plus cost money.

Also, if the idea of needing an ID card to do anything goes ahead, then if someone does lose their ID then they will have to put their entire lives on hold until they get a new one.

I don't think it will create a state in which the average person is spyed on, that's just paranoia, but I do think it will be a waste of government money to implement and will cause a huge amount of hassle for people, with little overall benefit.

[Wesley]

Why would you need an ID to make phonecalls or buy stuff? It's not like they even have enough people and other recources to keep track of all this stuff.

I'm pretty sure you can get computers to calculate a lot of the information.

But at this moment we don't see any point in having ID cards to buy stuff, but I'm sure 30 or 50 years ago no one could see a point in making everyone carry a card with an irus scan on.

Yes, yesterday. Its going ahead.
I can't see many flaws to this thing. If you haven't done anything bad theres nothing to hide.

But many people wouldn't want this kind of privacy taking away from them. If we go by the idea of "if you haven't done anything wrong then there's nothing to worry about" then would you be ok with the government taking DNA from everyone? How about sticking tiny movement trackers under everyone's skin? I mean common... they won't check it... as long as you haven't done anything wrong.

[Platty]

Were not worried that they will check on us, were worried that they can. Its an invasion of privacy which is the only thing we have. Even our money isnt ours.

'They' can already check up on us if 'they' want... not that 'they' would want to but if 'they' did think someone's up to know good and needed to find out whats going on it's quite easily done to get someone's house bugged and phones tapped. The home secretary has the last say of course and has to sign the order to authorise it. But it can be done along with tracking you either from an oyster card (in london) or even using the satellites....and not too mention your bank details, credit card details and passport.

I think ID cards are a very good idea and the sooner they are introduced the better.

[Jav_NE]

If they can do one day as someone said, be scanned to verify age and such then they are a good thing, underage drinking and smoking will certainly be less of a problem. What if we could pay for everything using a card.. oh wait, we can. We have cards for everything nowadays anyway, whats one more going to hurt?

[Cold Fire]

Just because the government can do all kinds of things with these ID cards, doesn't mean they will. This isn't the government finding a new way to give themself kicks, the won't be checking up on your average Joe's shopping trip to London.

Great point.

If you use a mobile phone, or credit card, or debit card, then the government can already find out pretty much all they want on you.

Im not sure if these cards are a good idea or not, but it doesnt bother me about the tracking aspect, we all know they can do it all ready.

[Wesley]

What if we could pay for everything using a card.. oh wait, we can. We have cards for everything nowadays anyway, whats one more going to hurt?

Well information on everything we buy could be collected, and we don't pay for everything using a card. When I go buy some chewing gum I don't use a card, if we had to use a card for everything then it really would be everything.

[Noodleman]

I take offence to the things being compulsary yet you have to pay for them.

[Blackfox]

I take offence to the things being compulsary yet you have to pay for them.

Me too.

The governement have a whole heap of info on us. I'd like to see this implemented though so that non-citizens dont get hospital treatment and benefits. (etc) But its sucks having to pay for it.

[mario114]

The gov. are allways bringing in new laws without using the current ones. If it's to stop terrorism thats all good, if it's to secretly bring in greater controll over normal citazens, then it's a bad idea.

[EEVILMURRAY]

Yes, yesterday. Its going ahead.
I can't see many flaws to this thing. If you haven't done anything bad theres nothing to hide.

Although the whole "stops terrorist" stuff is bull shit, it does mean random people can't walk in and just get free health care if they aren't UK citizens.

Yes, but for those of us in the population who have sex may prefer the government not to see it.

[KingJoe]

This is bollocks.
The right to privacy is a fundamental human right.
I don't want the train driver having a copy of my DNA on record. We don't need these things to combat terrorism. And the argument that "if you've done nothing wrong then you have nothing to fear" is fucking scary. I can't believe that rational people are posing that as an argument. Isn't that what witchhunters, the Spanish Inquisition and plenty of facist organisations have to say. The government has NO RIGHT to know what I get up to. We are ruled by consent. The government serves the people in a democracy, not the other way around. The government should not be able to check up on me. If they can prove that there is a need then they can get a warrant.
Power to the people. No police state. Innocent until PROVEN guilty.

[soag]

I think its a great idea, im all for it, bring on the ID cards I say :-).

[Ramar]

v.v;; I really can't believe how many people have a problem with this. >.>

I'm personally hoping these cards do go through. :) For one it's better for taking out then a passport which I defo don't want to end up losing..... Such a hassle to get them back. v.v;;

This man is a truth speaker!

I'm 18, but I don't drive, therefore I have no provisional liscence. Most places don't take NUS cards as ID, so I have to take my passport to the pub etc. A national ID card, would solve this problem, provided they aren't expensive to replace.

I also agree that people are looking too far into it, so what they have a few details about us, they see what shops you go into, what transport. Tell me there aren't CCTV cameras that aren't already seeing what we do. They're logging our movements, the only difference with the card will be they'll know who we are while we do what we do.

On the point of police with guns. I think that would be worse for crime, if an officer has a gun, the criminal will think to arm themselves before taking on the crime. Thus increasing gun crime.

And I'm done.