Has Rare lost it's glory?

[Segnit]

I certainly would say yes!

[S.C.G]

Having played Rares latest offerings for a reasonable period of time, I would say No, yes it is true that they dont have *exactly* the same charm as their N64 titles but don't forget that both Kameo and Perfect Dark Zero have been created with not just the hardcore Rare fans in mind but unfortunately the casual (spits) market as well. :nono:

However in their transition for what they have lost they have also gained a new type of charm which is evident from their two Xbox 360 titles, also they havent forgotten about their past either, I won't go into too much detail but their heritage is still important to them, this is reflected in the intros to both PD Zero and Kameo, plus their are also hidden references in Kameo to it's long development cycle and a few other bits of info hidden away.

So No, Rare hasnt lost it entirely, it knows what it's doing, even though I'm happy to admit that PDZ has it's issues (story, voice acting) and Kameo isnt perfect (longevity issues) but Rare can still hold it's own out there, and even if their recent titles may be lacking slightly they are still better than about 80% of the developers out there. (in my opinion :indeed: )

Anyway, as it stands for Rare, they have continued well with their developing career and have managed to create two overly decent titles for a launch of c console despite having the challenges of changing platforms twice and for that I still have a certain ammount of respect for Rare and hope that they continue to create games with the same ammount of effort that they have put into every other title.

In the meantime, my advice is to enjoy Rares current offerings, true they are flawed but theyre still nonethless brilliant in their own ways. Plus Rares work can only get better. (hopefully) :wink:

[Bren]

I thought kameo was pretty gdamn gud

but pdz has got some serious crapness attacthed to it, its just not my style of play, far to slow. After playing cod2 for a few hours, with all out action every couple of seconds, then going such a slow paced game, its just not fun.

[Segnit]

I’ve played all of Rare’s recent games. And I think that there is more then enough evidence to indicate that their quality and more particularly their output has been dwindling. They don’t “suck” but there is certainly an evidence of underachievement. Only a very tiny minority would flat out deny it.

Although I hate spitting on people’s fond memories of their games, I also hate being spitted on by the very companies I love and support.
For example: I hate when people are split into two camps about an ‘X’ game - love it or hate it. The ideal situation would be that the ‘X’ game is so truly amazing that everyone enjoys playing the game before going online and chatting about it. Thus the perfect game. But in reality such unanimity rarely happens.


Let’s take Star Fox Adventures as our prime example.
Was I excited about it before release? If you count as hunting down for every last picture and info on it as excited then, yeah, I was excited. Did I like the game? No. Did I have a bias against it? If I did, then why was I sooo excited about it before release? Was I faking the hype for myself? When jerking-off privately, do I prematurely tell my self “That orgasm was the best” even though I still haven’t climaxed? Do I fake my enjoyment to myself? Does anyone?

Do I like the fact that I bloody hate SFA? Do I like to tell someone who bought it and enjoyed it, that I hate the game? No and No. I’m firmly against jeopardizing happy memories of people. In fact, I hate the fact that some people can enjoy SFA where as I’m stuck in the “Hate camp” unintentionally. Rare caused the split in fans. I blame them for the fact that the game was wrongly hyped “You can go anywhere you see” (NGC Magazine) and wrongly advertised to many fans who were avidly waiting for years for the games release.

Going one step further, let’s look at the timescale for the game. It was in the making for approximately 4 and a half years, give or take 6 months. With the notion that time is money; should people look and base their opinions on the game solely on its own merits or should opinion be of a more relative nature? Now this is the topic it all boils down too.

To this day even top reviewers are mostly undecided whether to rate games on a more relative scale or “base your opinion of the game On its Own Merits (OiOM)” type of scale. Almost all reviews have elements of both types of marking system. But the type which is used most prominently is the “On its own merits” (Henceforth refered to as OiOM) scale. I believe that a likely explanation for this is that OiOM the more lenient of the two. And since fans can be easily aggravated over bad scores of their games, most publications simply remain faithful to their own optimistic, let’s call it… ideals.

If however, the games industry had its own living breathing God and all he did was love and foster his own industry for its ultimate growth. What system would he employ? Many different people would answer this question relatively compared with where they are in their gaming life.
An entry level gamer would probably (not definitely) want games to be rated based on OiOM. Since this newbie gamer hasn’t played other games to compare, a criticism like “been there done that” wouldn’t necessarily apply to him/her. Thus it’s not a stretch to say that OiOM goes well with less experienced gamers. Conversely, it wouldn’t be a stretch to imagine a Relative system doing well with more experienced gamers.

Think about it this way, if game developers mutually agreed to stop making advancements in game design, then everyone would have ended up playing all types of games at some point or another in their lives. Everyone would have “been there done that”.

The conclusion that I want to get to is the following:
Did I enjoy SFA? Sadly I did not. Did I enjoy DK64? No, I honestly didn’t. I've been there and done that with both.
Did Rare return to form with Kameo and PDZ? According to me, ABSOLUTELY NOT. But will Rare ever make a game to justify their heritage? They most certainly will. Although I’ve been harsh on Rare for the last, I don’t know… 6 years; nothing is stopping me from loving their games again in the future except for Rare themselves.
Let’s not kid ourselves though; many people have lost confidence in Rare no matter who their owner is… whether it is Nintendo or Microsoft.

[scubahood]

I don't think rare have lost their touch as such but whilst they're been away probably trying to choose which console to actually put kameo on the industry evolved. I mean in between PD and PDZ a lot of good FPS shooter games came out the one of the most relevence is halo as thats what it gets compared to most. Rare are just gonna have to step their game up next time round

[Stocka]

Well I got my Xbox 360 and my first games for it are both Kameo and Perfect Dark 0, and although I haven't played much of either I'm really enjoying both of them... PD0 the most at the moment. What annoys me about Kameo at the moment is although being colourful is nice, its almost too colourful at times that its painful for the eyes. Is it just me who thinks this?

Pretty good so far though, I look forward to really 'getting into it'.

Can't wait to play PDZ online when I get LIVE, single player is great fun. That rooftop level I did earlier was awesome.

[mario114]

In one word....

....YES.

[Meik]

Has Rare lost it's glory?Judging by Perfect Dark Zero, yes. Apparently Rare don't know how to implement a decent aiming system into a dual-analogue FPS. Anyone who disagrees with this hasn't played Halo 2.

And judging by Kameo, no. I may of beat it in 9 hours or so, but those were 9 enjoyable hours. Once they patch in online co-op it should be great.

[bryanee]

Judging by Perfect Dark Zero, yes. Apparently Rare don't know how to implement a decent aiming system into a dual-analogue FPS. Anyone who disagrees with this hasn't played Halo 2.

And judging by Kameo, no. I may of beat it in 9 hours or so, but those were 9 enjoyable hours. Once they patch in online co-op it should be great.

Aiming in Perfect Dark 0 is flawless, try adjusting the sensitivity to 70/75. Works a treat. Oh and theres hardly no auto aim unlike the tripe that is halo 2 which makes hitting everything a piece of cake. PDZ actually takes some skill to aim.

And Kameo is by and far the best adventure game I've played for a good couple of years.

[dannyg]

What? The aiming in PDZ isn't perfect, but it gets the job done.

[Aimless]

but pdz has got some serious crapness attacthed to it, its just not my style of play, far to slow. After playing cod2 for a few hours, with all out action every couple of seconds, then going such a slow paced game, its just not fun.
Too slow? Can I have your copy of the game, as the one I'm playing is far too frenetic for my liking.

For me, PD:Z's biggest flaw is an unavoidable one: it just isn't Halo. It was never meant to be. It was never meant for me.

[Meik]

Maybe it's the fact that i've played Halo 2 for too long then, I don't know. It seems a bit weird when any other shooter i've played (including the 360 version of Call of Duty 2) seems fine whereas PDZ doesn't. Right now i'm just not liking the aiming, and if that makes me a "noob" who has to rely on auto-aim then so be it, i'd rather just have fun then spend my time having to adjust/practice.

If you enjoy the game then that's great, don't let me stop you.

Edit - regarding the "Halo is tripe" comment - lol.

[Caris]

Considering what rare have been through changing from cube to xbox to 360 and producing 2 amazing launch games that were VERY rushed (damn ms) for launch i think there there back to there good old days :D

simple answer.

NO.

[Wesley]

Everything I am about to say is based on me watching my friend playing on new Rare games and what I ahve heard from other people and review scores.

I don't think Rare suddenly suck, but I do think that Rare have lost their "spark" so to speak. I'm not sure if this is because a lot of the team left, or that the brothers aren't interested because they have lots of money or if it's simply the change from Nintendo consoles to Microsoft consoles.

The last Rare game I played was Starfox and that didn't have that Rare "magic" but still had the Rare feel. So I think that game was just simply an average Rare game, just like Kameo looked like to me.

[Hellfire]

I think so too. i can't help but think that Nintendo did have a lot of hand in their games. Grabbed by the ghoulies was what we all knnow. Conker is a nice remake with horrible multiplayer (I know some people here don't agree, but it's my opinion) a crappy combat system and no upgrades where it needed. Cameo is good, but it doesn't hold a candle to the likes of Banjo and such, it just isn't very polished, not to mention the horrible, horrible art. Haven't played PDZ though. They're still a good developer with good IPs, but they're not what they used to be.

[Link]

Rare's glory days ended when all their best developers left and created Free Radical.....I now have more repect for free radical than Rare....

[JinX]

Rare blows now, compared to its old days with nintendo.

Making 2 games in like 3 years, thats lame.

[Enigma]

I lost interest in Rare´s games a long time ago (the N64 years).
Their SNES titles were awesome, but afterwards it´s only declined.
I must admit I never played any of their N64 games for import reasons. :angry:
I did play Golden Eye at a time and the multiplayer of that game was really fun.

In short: Yes, Rare has lost it´s glory. None of their games seems interesting anymore.

[bryanee]

I completed Kameo last night my god how easy was the last boss? I had far more trouble with the boss before it.

[CooInTheZoo]

Im about 4ish hours into kameo. its fucking brill, im enjoying it alot more than the first four hours of...say banjo kazooie (which is a bit overrated imo)

[MunKy]

Rare have declined because it isnt Rare anymore! Most of the team is gone for christs sake. Also They've lost Nintendos helping hand. You think Retro would be as good if Nintendo werent helping them?

[Caris]

Rare have declined because it isnt Rare anymore! Most of the team is gone for christs sake. Also They've lost Nintendos helping hand. You think Retro would be as good if Nintendo werent helping them?

shhhh, listen can you hear that?


careffully listen...


















JEALOUSY

[Ollie]

I would have to say no. Kameo is awesome, it looks great and plays well, and some of the voice acting is sooo funny.

PDZ is awesome too, the aiming is hard to begin with but with some practice it is even better than normal as you can really go for headshots instead of some crazy auto aim screwing thigs up. Let me just say, if you have doubts about PDZ, play it some more!

[system_error]

The problem is that a lot of the driving force behind RARE is gone. A lot of the former RARE team are now developing under the name "Zoonami". PDZ is not my type of game anymore but I do like Kameo - not because of the graphic but because it is so much fun even though a bit too short for my taste.

[Caris]

The problem is that a lot of the driving force behind RARE is gone. A lot of the former RARE team are now developing under the name "Zoonami". PDZ is not my type of game anymore but I do like Kameo - not because of the graphic but because it is so much fun even though a bit too short for my taste.

i agree to a certain degree, but then the new members, whats stop them from being just as good?

[Bren]

the piles of crap that they released on the 360, thats wots to stop them from being as gud as the old team

[Hero-of-Time]

Rare Snes-N64 Days>>>>>>>>Rare Now.

[Caris]

the piles of crap that they released on the 360, thats wots to stop them from being as gud as the old team

Kameo is amazing, and yes PDZ is flaed in areas like onyl 6 multiplayer maps etc, but even rare said they were uber rushed for launch thanks to gay MS.

[critterdhs05]

of course it is lossing it touch this is why nintendo sold them or their putting all their barins into the ds games on the way ;)

[Jordan]

even tho its been in development for 5 years

Thats not technically true, they had 18 months on beta kits to build the game from the ground up on a totally new platform.

Kameo, is a very very good game. I'd say it's as good or better than some of Rare's N64 games.

[Shorty]

Thats not technically true, they had 18 months on beta kits to build the game from the ground up on a totally new platform.

Kameo, is a very very good game. I'd say it's as good or better than some of Rare's N64 games.
Honestly I can't think of any n64 game, except maybe the Mickey Mouse racing games, that don't soar above Kameo. I found Kameo to be a basic repetitive beat-em-up style game. It was just smash, bash, repeat - and the worlds were nowhere near as awe inspiring as they were in the Banjo games. It's not so much that I think it's a bad game, I just think that it doesn't meet Rare's very high standards nor does really show its many years of developement.

[Android18a]

I sold Kameo, it was far worse than I expected. I like Perfect Dark a lot, though - far more than Halo or Halo 2 at least. Arcadey FPSes ftw.

Anyway, I don't think Rare has gotten worse per se... I never really rated them during the N64 days. Sure, Goldeneye and Jet Force Gemini are classics, but games like Blast Corps, Banjo Kazooie and DK64 really didn't do it for me.

[Jordan]

Thats weird, i feel the total oposite.
Kameo is quite refreshing, after the first level anyway. The little combo moves are clever too.

Perfect Dark just feels incredibly rushed, I know it was to get it out for launch but there are limits...

[DiemetriX]

PD was ok. Kameo was "horrible". It felt like a Acclaim game with good GFX.
But i would love if Rare released a 360version of the old PD game.

[CooInTheZoo]

I like PDZ more than Kameo. I wish Kameo had more of a deeper story too it.

But they are both my fave of the launch titles that ive played! RARE are different, they are still RARE. You can tell as soon as you boot up Kameo

[Stocka]

Whats with all the Kameo hate?
Its starts off pretty crap but as you get like 5/6 hours into it you realise what a great game it is.

And am I the only person that absolutely loves the start up to Kameo with the Rare logo and the cinema like music. Lovely start up.

[Ormingstoke]

They're both great games, takes an hour or two to get into both of them but they're well worth it. My only problem was that Kameo was too short.

Rare haven't lost it, their games now are still great fun.

I do hope at some point they bring out a game with the great graphics of Kameo, but the long hours of gameplay of games like Banjo-Tooie and Donkey Kong 64.

[Caris]

The true test will be there next game on the 360, they wont be as rushed, they will be used to the Dev kits more, then they have no exuse....

[Jav_NE]

Rare will always rock in my opinion. I got my 360 recently solely because of them. If they were more prominant on the original XBox they wouldve swayed me to get one of those too.

Their games just effervesce charm, it sucks MS have rushed them on these games else i reckon they would be more lengthy. I dont however believe that there is less quality or spark because of them being rushed. I for one sure sense it. Their humour, their characters.. shorter does not mean what is there is off less quality.

The first time i played PD0 i was cautious of the aiming because Jordan had said its pretty crappy.. 2,3,4 hours in, i found myself asking myself, 'oh yeah, what was the problem he was mentioning?' Maybe you just have to get used to it but for me, i just sank right into it. I hear some of you complaining you have to aim yourself too much, what the fuck?! Of course you do! Maybe youre just heavy handed and not delicate enough on the sticks. I found targeting the final boss real easy with the P9P(i think thats it?!) scope, headshots were a treat to score! It is short though, 13 missions?! I cant remember how many PD had but it was more than that, and its a shame because it rushes the story which then goes to explain why some people say the story sucks. Nevertheless, it makes for some great little moments like the DeathMatch with Mai Hem, and i loved charging around with the institute guys and Jonathon and Jack.

I love the little things in there too, smacking someone up close, taking cover so so easilly and pretty much anywhere you desire and the diving is great and damn helpful. Maybe i love it more as i havnt had a good FPS since TimeSplitters 2, PD0 kicks that games ass, and Halo didnt do it for me, it felt too clunky. And lets face it, Jo looks hot. The game rocks.

Im writing too much, but if i could be bothered id go into why Kameo rocks too. Those who disagree should go email scribes on Rares website, id love to see the response!

[cubeboy101]

nintendo saeen in rare a spent forse and sold them for hundreds of millions of pounds to silly bill gates then nintendo brout retro studios for a mear 1 million dollors and they won game of the year with there 1st nintendo project metroid prime its clear as day rare were great becouse nintendo made them great thats why we are ninty fans is it starting to sink in casual xbox gamers nintendo are the masters bill gates a mear gate crasher bring on the revolution

[cubeboy101]

goldeneye team perfect dark team etc all left zooarmi and free radical are the 2 developer teams that have all the ex rare talent bill gates paid 250million plus for a name hahahahaha foooool

[Jordan]

Oh dear god...

[Dr Kong]

Ban him now.

I played the demo of Kameo and though its not fair for me to judge it on such a short experience, I thought it was ok. Good for a rent, as people say its short and I can see alot of charming characters in the game but it does seem a little to much like a generic platformer with the smashing crates and I played those to death in the late 90's-00's. But as I said, I will rent the game (once I get a 360) so I can draw a better opinion from that.

[skarmachild]

I have to say yes, their games don't feel... unique enough now..

[skarmachild]

Goldeneye - The finest FPS ever created by human hands.

[Ryan]

ill say this, rare HAVE lost it, rare are just like any old developer now.

who will be playing kameo or perfecr dark in 2+ years time.
Me. Because I've only just been able to get an Xbox 360 :P

[Jav_NE]

And i will because, they are awesome! Deary me...