National Identity Cards

[Infinete]

I got bored and had been discussing this with a friend and decided to see what others thout about this situation, sorry for the essay i just got a lot to say.

i was just wondering what people here think about the national identity cards, as i do not particually like them, i mean dont get me wrong, they may seem like a good idea at first, as they will mean that it will be easier to stop illegal imagrants and terrorists in, but wont goverments use this to their adavantatge, cos once the whole system is set up, will the goverment not use the data themselves.

Firstly i believe that like the current oyster card, the goverment will be able to track you were ever you go, they will no who you are, wer you are from and where you are going, as every thing about you, and i mean everything, will be on one big data base, so privacy will be thrown out of the window.

Secondly i believe that mistakes will happen, and just imagine, you and some one named X gets their records mixed up, your life will be completly recked, cos without these cards you wont be able to do anything, as you will need them just to enter a shop, or draw money, or even drink!

I just think that the goverment will use this against us, and to think that by by 2013 we could be expected to have one, and they cost 33 pounds each, 77 for a combined passport, i dont no.

right better end here its getting to long, sorry for the essay, as i said i was kinda bored.

[Ray Falling]

sounds like that one movie "like a thief in the night" 0_0

That would freak me out yeah...but I tend to keep a low profile so not much could go wrong...I hope

[Dieter]

Errr... what? I'm not sure how an ID card could tell the big bad brother where you're heading, unless they built a GPS system in there or something, which actually would be quite impressive. Why do people like to think that someone has an intrest in following them? No nobody needs to know you masturbate that often, they won't check.

I don't believe a shop owner would actually ask to see your card before you enter.... and try asking a group of rowdy chavs that just entered your pub to show you their ID cards... not happening.


I don't really think that the government is 'out to get you'. You automatically jump to the conclusion that they'll use it to their advantage and to your disadvantage, the poor innocent civilian.

A mans life will not be 'recked' because of a mixup, surely only one or two situations would rise before it gets corrected, it's all digital right?

And I completely fail to see how a nationwide ID card system (which I personally thought was implemented years ago in most places) would make privacy grow wings, open a window and soar out gracefully.


Fake edit aka PS: Ray? Low profile? Don't make me laugh.

[mike-zim]

i am totally behind this. i think alot of crime would be solved alot faster if there was a data base with everyones finger prints and dna on it. do you know that 80% of rapists are never caught. that is wrong. with id cards that number would fall dramatically i would say to less than 5%. that is just 1 example.

at the end of the day it boils down to the choice Greater safety or greater privacy. personnaly i have nothing to hide and if i could go about my life feeling that little bit safer i say go for it. so what if they know where i went on holiday last year.

i also think that you have exagerated a little, you would not need it on you all the time. if you were asked to show it and did not have it on you, you could present it at your nearest police station up to a week later.

[Fields]

If you've got nothing to hide, then you shouldn't have a problem with ID cards.

[Ray Falling]

Fake edit aka PS: Ray? Low profile? Don't make me laugh.

semi-angry response: In life in Holland that is. I dont go out getting arrested and having my info on record just about everywere.

[Hank Scorpio]

semi-angry response: In life in Holland that is. I dont go out getting arrested and having my info on record just about everywere.

I think that is more so living within the law as opposed to keeping a low profile.

[Maverick]

Although i have nothing to hide and thats the reason they are gonna say oh yeah you need it for identification to me its just another way of the government to track us down, passports, driving licenses and now this? is three different types of identification needed to indentify one person? :indeed:

[Ray Falling]

I think that is more so living within the law as opposed to keeping a low profile.

I do all 3 of those.

(15 characters:

Link
Mario
Zelda
Kirby
Peach
Toad
Bowser
Pikachu

argh you get the point)

[mike-zim]

Although i have nothing to hide and thats the reason they are gonna say oh yeah you need it for identification to me its just another way of the government to track us down, passports, driving licenses and now this? is three different types of identification needed to indentify one person? :indeed:

What info does your drivers license and passport really have? we are talking DNA, Finger prints and iris scans. this is the stuff that will help identify which people did what.

i think it is a brilliant idea. about the only thing that the labour party are doing right.

[Dieter]

semi-angry response: In life in Holland that is. I dont go out getting arrested and having my info on record just about everywere.


'keeping a low profile' makes you sound like some kind of gangster or something, hence the rather sarcastic reply. But I realise you just worded it wrongly. My apologies.

[Noodleman]

If you've got nothing to hide, then you shouldn't have a problem with ID cards.

No but I do however have issue with them being compulsary, but we have to pay for them. I dont mind having one I have nothing nothing to hide but if your going to make me get one then it should be free.

[Eenuh]

Well, this is the first thing I hear about it, but I think it's a good idea really. We already got electronic IDs here now that contains our personal information like name and address and stuff; it will also allow us to use it online for stuff like online banking and shopping or to access certain chats (so they can make sure people aren't lying about age and stuff).
Letting them have stuff like your fingerprints seems like a good idea; would make crime solving a bit easier in some cases I think. Besides, it's not like they will know everything about you once they get that information. Some people are just too paranoid.
Besides, they already have my fingerprints, at least from both of my index fingers, since I had to give them when I went to the States. No big deal really.

[Ray Falling]

'keeping a low profile' makes you sound like some kind of gangster or something, hence the rather sarcastic reply. But I realise you just worded it wrongly. My apologies.

No worries, I'm not mad.

[mike-zim]

No but I do however have issue with them being compulsary, but we have to pay for them. I dont mind having one I have nothing nothing to hide but if your going to make me get one then it should be free.

i agree. it should be compulsary, or there would be no point in them at all. but they should be free. i think when you turn 18 or 16 you get the first one free. but the government cant afford to give everyone 1 for free.

[Mr_Odwin]

Free or not free, we'll still pay for them with our taxes or with money that comes from our wallets/purses.

[Fields]

The cost is already way too high, there's no way they could afford it without making us pay for them (on top of what we've already payed through taxes). The OP mentioned £77 for a combined ID card/passport. I don't know if that's true, but it seems pretty reasonable to me considering the price of passports anyway.

[mike-zim]

The cost is already way too high, there's no way they could afford it without making us pay for them (on top of what we've already payed through taxes). The OP mentioned £77 for a combined ID card/passport. I don't know if that's true, but it seems pretty reasonable to me considering the price of passports anyway.

yeah i agree, but if you only knew how much of thw tax money gets wasted you wouldnt mind the id cards.

[Infinete]

what has been said is true, it would help reduce crime, expecially rape as your entire medical history, DNA and finger prints data will be on record, also the way that they track is that this id card will be used every were, it will be used when you sign for something or pay for something, ive heard it may even be used as a credit card, so the goverment can quite easily track you if they want, as they will no were you are, also they will ask a bunch of chavs at the pub as it will be used to prevent under aged drinking as you cannot really get a fake version of this any way, as the data will need to be on the database. But i dont have anything to hide so no i will not be to worried, but still i dont like the idea of being watched like a big brother contender, i mean they will know what you are doing and when, well not always, but most of the time. and the price is quite expensive if you are of a low income, or an unemployed student like me, but i probably do support it......maybe.

[mike-zim]

but still i dont like the idea of being watched like a big brother contender, i mean they will know what you are doing and when, well not always, but most of the time.

that is a little over the top. yeah you might get someone look into your movement every once in a while but i hardly think the government have the resources to track every person with an ID card. they would probably find other info first before they would use the id cards. like if there was a crime and it was commited in your area.

and the price is quite expensive if you are of a low income, or an unemployed student like me, but i probably do support it......maybe.

i would imagine if it were compulsary there would be concetions (sorry about spelling)

[Infinete]

yer maybey, but then why wuld they create such a system?

[Indigo]

If you've got nothing to hide, then you shouldn't have a problem with ID cards.
I disagree. Coupled with the ridiculous anti-terrorism legislation (that thankfully didn't get through the commons in its original form), ID cards is just one more step towards a police-state.

They are currently used in Spain, and yet that didn't help prevent the Madrid bombings, therefore the argument that they will aid in preventing terrorism seems a little weak to me.

[mike-zim]

for the safety of the nation. to keep a track of immigration as they dont have a clue at the moment what is going on. to cut crime. it is a tool for many legitamate operations that the government need to improve upon.

[Fields]

I disagree. Coupled with the ridiculous anti-terrorism legislation (that thankfully didn't get through the commons in its original form), ID cards is just one more step towards a police-state.

They are currently used in Spain, and yet that didn't help prevent the Madrid bombings, therefore the argument that they will aid in preventing terrorism seems a little weak to me.
I don't see what peoples' problem is with the concept of a 'police state'. Such a term merely suggests a state where crime is punished, and justice prevails. So, like I said, you shouldn't have a problem if you've got nothing to hide.

[Infinete]

for the safety of the nation. to keep a track of immigration as they dont have a clue at the moment what is going on. to cut crime. it is a tool for many legitamate operations that the government need to improve upon.

Im sorry i obviously didnt make my sarcasm very clear, but oh well, the point is i have mixed feelings about it, yes they will help saftey but it will decrease privacy, but as i said before, i will most likley support it for the greater good, as it ohopefully will work out for the best, oh, also there will be help for those who cannot pay for it, and the first set of 16 year olds at this time will get one free.

[Raining_again]

These are hopefully a step towards a safer life. So what if its a "police-state", i'd rather be safe in my country! Its not fun living in a place where theres a lot of threats.

And i also agree that if youve got nothin to hide you shouldn't be bothered. It's paid for one way or another, taxes, out of our pockets etc as mr_odwin said.


They are currently used in Spain, and yet that didn't help prevent the Madrid bombings, therefore the argument that they will aid in preventing terrorism seems a little weak to me.

Do we know for a fact that the ID system could have prevented this, perhaps the police there are just not up to scratch? (i am not saying they are, just you can't assume faults, without knowing how and why it happened)

And also, a very small point, ID can be used to prove you are the age you are, as im sure many people like me have problems when trying to buy age restricted items or going to see a film.

</essay> :heh:

[Jack]

They're a crock of shit. Unless each card acts as a beam shield generator and you wear it on your wrist, I don't see how they'll stop people being killed by terrorists.

[Infinete]

And also, a very small point, ID can be used to prove you are the age you are, as im sure many people like me have problems when trying to buy age restricted items or going to see a film.
</essay> :heh:

Cah, i know what you what you mean i have the worst time trying to prove my age, i look to young, which annoys me, but everyone tels me that i will be thankfull for it in he future. but i ready have id, so what annoys me is that i will have to purchase some more.

[Fields]

</essay>
You call that an essay? Are you a spammer or what?

[Raining_again]

You call that an essay? Are you a spammer or what?

Calm down dude, joke.

Cah, i know what you what you mean i have the worst time trying to prove my age, i look to young, which annoys me, but everyone tels me that i will be thankfull for it in he future. but i ready have id, so what annoys me is that i will have to purchase some more.

yeah, ive been told i look about 16 (on a good day) and ill be 20 next year. When im thirty i better damn well look 20 :heh:

[Fields]

Calm down dude, joke.

Calm down dude, I was joking too.

[Noodleman]

And also, a very small point, ID can be used to prove you are the age you are, as im sure many people like me have problems when trying to buy age restricted items or going to see a film.


Nope thats what I have a driving license for

[mario114]

It's anouther case on the nanny state.

[Myke Greywolf]

We've had national ID cards in Portugal for ages.

*looks around*

Hmm... nope. No police state here.

We need ID to:
- Open bank accounts
- Cash cheques
- Pick up packages at the mail office
- Get a passport
- Enter national territory without questioning
- Prove our age, if necessary
- Give our ID number at the reception desks of some buildings, if requested
- Show to the police, if requested and justified

We do not feel watched, because all these entities are not related, and don't share information with each other. There's no "big database" tracking our every move. Just a bunch of small databases that are pretty useless by themselves. And there are laws imposing strict rules regarding stored personal information.

The card itself might be easily faked, but it's no worse than a driver's license, and not everybody gets one of those.

[Infinete]

yeah, ive been told i look about 16 (on a good day) and ill be 20 next year. When im thirty i better damn well look 20 :heh:

LOL. thats asking a bit much isnt it?..............That i have to prove that im oldr than 16 yet ill be 18 soon.

[Kurtle Squad]

I think it's a fine idea. But I'd use chips for something fully effective.
If you've do nothing wrong, you've got nothing to worry about, it would be NOTHING like Big Brother at all.

[blumeanie.]

ID cards are a very very serious issue, Especially in a democracy that prides itself on its valued freedoms and rights to inividual privacy. I am strongly opposed to the introduction of ID cards , heres why .

The current cost of implementing this scheme is estimated at £19billion of taxpayers money and is expected to rise even further . The new cards will utillise DNA and iris scanning technology and there is legislation in motion to make them compulsory for all at an average price of £300 per head in the future. Some may agree that the cards will aid the fight against terrorism and crime etc , but the sacrafice you are making by accepting this draconian idea must be fully understood .

Think about it , ID cards make us accountable to the state as a numbered collective rather than the state being accountable to us as free democratic individuals , You are essentialy being given an identity by the state packaged in plastic rather than you determining your own identity freely . The argument "if you have nothing to hide you have nothing to worry about" is a short cut to thinking . By introducing ID cards the state already assumes you have something to hide and this immediately reverses the role of accountability between the government and the electorate , something western democracies are quick to condemn as the workings of dictator states.

If Al Qaeda are the ruthless Islamic fundamentalists we are led to believe then it stands to reason that they will still try to kill us regardless of any changes we make to our way of life . As the London bombings proved, some terrorists have no intention of concealing their identities and sometimes take pride leaving videos of themselves with a motive explaining their actions.

The government says it will not give in to terrorists and the reason these terrorists hate us so much is because of our freedoms and way of life . But if my government plans to curb the freedoms i enjoy they are telling me that they are listening to terrorists and that the terrorist method works . Any alteration to our way of life is more or less handing victory to these terrorists . ID cards have little effect on the determined terrorist or criminal as the Madrid bombings demonstrated .

I could talk a lot more against ID cards but i dont want you all nodding off ,. lol.

I just think those in favour should think more deeply before handing over hard won freedoms that are essential to maintaining OUR control over OUR elected government.

[Infinete]

see, some body understands me.

[Raining_again]

But why is carrying an ID card cutting our freedoms? so what if we have to show it to a copper etc every now and then.

[Kurtle Squad]

But you'd still be just as free, and just as much an individual!!!