Miyamoto Was Sad During GameCube Era

[Dante]

Miyamoto "Very Sad" During GameCube Era

Even the senior managing director of Nintendo feels down now and again -- and as any dyed-in-the-wool Nintendo fan can tell you, there were more than a few things to feel down about during the company's GameCube era. That's why it's perhaps little surprise that in an interview conducted with Famitsu editor-in-chief Katsuaki Kato this week, Shigeru Miyamoto revealed his "sadness" at Nintendo's game-development atmosphere at the time.

"There was an era when Nintendo was going in the direction of doing the same things other companies did," Miyamoto told Kato. "The more we competed with new companies entering the market, the more we started acting similar to them. But is being number one in that competition the same as being number one with the general public? That's the question we had. Entertainment is something that you have to look at the world with a very wide eye as you create it. I always thought that, but there were a few years where I was unable to get off other people's trends. It was a dilemma in my mind."

Which years were these? "The N64 and the era after it," Miyamoto responds. "I was endlessly fascinated with 3D worlds, but what with all the issues I had to tinker with in terms of rendering and processing speed, it got to the point where I didn't know who was making the games any longer.

"This is a job where you have a plan and you polish it endlessly while getting help from others. If Nintendo's games fail to stand out as games that aren't made that way proliferate, then it shows that the creation process is for nothing, which made me very sad. That was especially obvious during the GameCube era; Nintendo titles were hardly even discussed by the [non-gaming] general public back then."

As Miyamoto describes it, this creative dead end that he and his development teams felt with the GameCube was one of the primary motivations for Nintendo's new approach -- something first seen with the Game Boy Advance's Classic NES series. "We thought about starting over from scratch and aiming for games that can be played by people who don't play games," he notes. "We did some research, and the result was the Classic NES series, which got the response we were hoping for. In the end we didn't want a new game system, but a product that would make the entire world go crazy. And so [ex-Nintendo president Hiroshi] Yamauchi said 'two screens.' That turned the development lab upside down!"

The core concept of the DS was a pretty far-out idea even by Nintendo standards. "Doing that would make the system larger and essentially double the price," Miyamoto said. "And yet we thought that it'd be a new surprise for the general public, that it wouldn't be a bad way to attract the interest of a wide band of people. So we went through some trial-and-error work which ultimately connected to the touch pen, something I had wanted to have for a while. I didn't think two screens was enough to make the DS a success, but the touch pen is what puts it all together, both in terms of cost and design. That's what helps make it seem fascinating to people."

And to think: we wouldn't have the successful, powerful Nintendo of today if it weren't for the era of "connectivity" and little purple boxes.

1UP (http://www.1up.com/do/newsStory?cId=3173211).

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v136/MKiller/emomoto.jpg

[Jordan]

Well, now he's happy. We're all pissed off.

Madworld can't come out soon enough.

[Captain Falcon]

The only games being discussed back by the non gaming community were which ones the daily red tops could pin the latest murder on (and other general scare mongering) - they should be glad.

[mcj metroid]

well he didn't exactly help during the gamecube era did he.. i mean pikmin and er that's it?
sure he supervised a shite load of projects but he could have done so much more but then again after wii music maybe we were better off..

[Shino]

http://img4.imageshack.us/img4/3032/yamascreens.png

[Teppo Holmqvist]

Well, now he's happy. We're all pissed off.

Oh mighty True Gamer (tm), I'm so glad that you are speaking for all of us. It's not like us mere mortals couldn't even comprehend that it is wrong that we enjoy Wii games. Oh thank you so very much.

* kisses Jordan's feets *

[Ren of Heavens]

Nintendo (not counting Retro and HAL) didn't really make any revolutionary games in the GC era. Mario Sunshine and Mario Kart DD was arguably the worst in their respective series. Wind Waker is perhaps the closest with it's beautiful cel-shaded graphics and being a great game overall. Pikmin was good, but not legendary good. All other Nintendo-made games were pretty mediocre, at least in terms of innovation. Older series getting a bit better graphics and some new features, like Mario Golf, Mario Power Tennis etc. The creative edge from older generations were gone.

[Emasher]

You know, I seem to remember 2007 and the end of 2006, and even the beginning of 2008 being great years for Nintendo games. Zelda, Mario, Metroid, Mario Kart, Brawl, ect. And we had one bad year, which happens every generation, and people have suddenly lost faith in Nintendo. This year is looking to be another great year like 2007 was.

[Teppo Holmqvist]

You know, I seem to remember 2007 and the end of 2006, and even the beginning of 2008 being great years for Nintendo games. Zelda, Mario, Metroid, Mario Kart, Brawl, ect. And we had one bad year, which happens every generation, and people have suddenly lost faith in Nintendo. This year is looking to be another great year like 2007 was.

Majority of people have short attention span, and even shorter memory. What did you except?

[Emasher]

Majority of people have short attention span, and even shorter memory. What did you except?

True, but I see no problem with a little reminder.

[or else you will DIE]

as of now, the Gamecube library slaughters the Wii's imo

[Jordan]

Oh mighty True Gamer (tm), I'm so glad that you are speaking for all of us. It's not like us mere mortals couldn't even comprehend that it is wrong that we enjoy Wii games. Oh thank you so very much.

* kisses Jordan's feets *

You honestly feel happy with the Wii's line up at the moment?

The GameCube, whilst it didn't have a huge library, it had a stream of extremely high quality games.

The Wii, has a huge amount of party games. I have 24 Wii games, but it feels like first party intention was to get all early adopters in with first year games... and that's it.

What have we got to look forward to? A Punch-Out remake, Another Code (i'm actually excited about this), Sin and Punishment 2 (not a huge fan of the first one), Excitebots?

The other 2 consoles have HUGE libraries full of astoundingly high quality games. I want to love my Wii, but the only game i'm really interested in is Madworld at this point. I don't want more on-rail shooters either...

[Pookiablo]

as of now, the Gamecube library slaughters the Wii's imo

Truth is, the N64 library flattens anything that Nintendo's made since the release of the Cube, with the exception of Galaxy and Mario Kart Wii!

[Shino]

The other 2 consoles have HUGE libraries full of astoundingly high quality games. I want to love my Wii, but the only game i'm really interested in is Madworld at this point. I don't want more on-rail shooters either...

Why are you blaming Nintendo? How many of the awesome games in the other consoles are inhouse development? Nintendo is not the problem here, its the same shit ass support the devs give it like they always did.

[darksnowman]

Majority of people have short attention span, and even shorter memory. What did you except?

Thats why Nintendo make short games now! :wink:

Lol. Anyway, Shigsy's and Nintendo are right. They've made two great consoles with the Wii and the DS which have helped reinvigorate a lot of gamers. No they can't seem to please everyone, but then its not like Microsoft or Sony please 100% of the population either.

[Ren of Heavens]

As I've said before the main problem with the Wii line-up so far is third party support (which is about to change starting with MadWorld). Nintendo gave us Smash Bros. Brawl, Wii Fit, AC: City Folk and Mario Kart Wii last year. Not too bad, really.

[Teppo Holmqvist]

You honestly feel happy with the Wii's line up at the moment?

Yes, and I hope it pisses you off.

[Jordan]

Yes, and I hope it pisses you off.

Why would it piss me off? If you're happy with the current selection, good for you.

Don't be an arse because i'm not... :-/

[Teppo Holmqvist]

As I've said before the main problem with the Wii line-up so far is third party support (which is about to change starting with MadWorld). Nintendo gave us Smash Bros. Brawl, Wii Fit, AC: City Folk and Mario Kart Wii last year. Not too bad, really.

Indeed. The problem with these discussions is always that people are so goddamn nostalgic about the past, and lack any kind of perspective. They cry how Wii doesn't have same amount of games on its second year that Gamecube had on its fifth, and elevate old games into pedestals that they belong.

[Dante]

the almighty king of asses? :confused:

[Jimbob]

You honestly feel happy with the Wii's line up at the moment?

The GameCube, whilst it didn't have a huge library, it had a stream of extremely high quality games.

The Wii, has a huge amount of party games. I have 24 Wii games, but it feels like first party intention was to get all early adopters in with first year games... and that's it.

What have we got to look forward to? A Punch-Out remake, Another Code (i'm actually excited about this), Sin and Punishment 2 (not a huge fan of the first one), Excitebots?

The other 2 consoles have HUGE libraries full of astoundingly high quality games. I want to love my Wii, but the only game i'm really interested in is Madworld at this point. I don't want more on-rail shooters either...

You know, i happen to agree with you on this. The GC had a stream of games which could be deemed as excellent. (these included Twin Snakes, Eternal Darkness to name a few gems), even though the console didn't do too good compared to the PS2, it had the games to keep us gamers hooked.

The Wii mostly has party games, which annoys me. We have a console with the potential to make huge leaps in the gaming world and all we get (apart from some games like Mario Kart, Smash Bros etc) are party games. E3 last year annoyed me to high water. While the 360 got GoW 2 as a big game, one of the Wii's biggest games was..................... Wii-sports 2. Wtf!!!!!!. We gamers may have been shafted with the Wii, being cast aside and all that for these non-gamers who think games like Carnival fun and My Horse and Me (used for examples) are the best thing to hit the console. Even the DS is following suit with party-style games.

Ever wonder why i got a 360 as well, there is the reason above. And the reason why Smash Bros and Mario Kart are 2 of the main games i play on the Wii. I feel embarrased again with the current Wii line-up.

And for anyone who is happy with the current Wii-line up of games, good for you. I am pleased for you, its just that i;m not too pleased with it at the moment.

[Retro_Link]

Why would it piss me off? If you're happy with the current selection, good for you.

Don't be an arse because i'm not... :-/Yeah come on Teppo, keep it friendly!

[Jordan]

Indeed. The problem with these discussions is always that people are so goddamn nostalgic about the past, and lack any kind of perspective. They cry how Wii doesn't have same amount of games on its second year that Gamecube had on its fifth, and elevate old games into pedestals that they belong.

To be honest. I count one "new" game there.

As awesome as Brawl was, it was Melee with polish and a few new features... And a massively broken online component.

Animal Crossing was lazy as hell. Its the SAME game we've had for the last 4 iterations with a few new features each release. Why aren't they ambitious? I don't want to give Tom Nook my bells anymore... or collect fossils, again.

Mario Kart Wii is fantastic. Sure the AI is a little cheap, but its probably the best MK since MK64.

I'll put it this way. My favourite game of the last decade is Mario Galaxy. I fucking LOVE that game. Why isn't there more like this on the Wii? It looks beautiful, it sounded astounding, the level design was perfect and the mechanics were awesome! Why not more like this?

[david.dakota]

Nintendo gave us Smash Bros. Brawl, Wii Fit, AC: City Folk and Mario Kart Wii last year

All of these games were COMPLETED for release in Japan in 2007.

[Jimbob]

All of these games were COMPLETED for release in Japan in 2007.

True, but none were released in the EU until 2008.

I am going to pick up Galaxy soon, because it is one game i am after and have been after for a long time now.

[Dante]

I'll put it this way. My favourite game of the last decade is Mario Galaxy. I fucking LOVE that game. Why isn't there more like this on the Wii? It looks beautiful, it sounded astounding, the level design was perfect and the mechanics were awesome! Why not more like this?

Muramasa: The Demon Blade? Which comes out in 2010 ¬_¬

[Teppo Holmqvist]

Don't be an arse because i'm not... :-/

I'm pretty much sick that certain gamers tell how they represent whole gamerhood, and how games that the play are more precious than the games that others play. I hate how people think that they belong into some kind of cultivated intellectual elite because they play Halo 3 or Bioshock or whatever. Even worse is when same people think that they are actually better human beings thanks to this.

[Jordan]

Muramasa: The Demon Blade? Which comes out in 2010 ¬_¬

Yeah, whats with the 2010 release? Nuts...

I'm pretty much sick that certain gamers tell how they represent whole gamerhood, and how games that the play are more precious than the games that others play. I hate how people think that they belong into some kind of cultivated intellectual elite because they play Halo 3 or Bioshock or whatever. Even worse is when same people think that they are actually better human beings thanks to this.

I'd have to agree. I'm not one of these kinds of people. I play a system if i like the games on it, not because I'm sucking the teat of a manufacturer.

Maybe I came across a little arsey, but I can't help but feel... Left out, let down, put outside. What ever you want to call it. One of my favourite games last year, was the criminally unappreciated Banjo-Kazooie: Nuts & Bolts. That game is just, pure genius on a disc. On the other side of the scale, I was playing Peggle today on XBOX Live Arcade. If either of these were on the Wii, i'd be playing it there. Or the PS3... Or whatever.

Like I say, I'm in it for the games no matter where they are. But having invested hundreds (or even thousands) of pounds in Nintendo products over the years. Its a little upsetting how things are becoming and I really hope we get an olive branch in July.

[Shino]

I'll put it this way. My favourite game of the last decade is Mario Galaxy. I fucking LOVE that game. Why isn't there more like this on the Wii? It looks beautiful, it sounded astounding, the level design was perfect and the mechanics were awesome! Why not more like this?

Because its been in the works during 1 entire gen! Of course it's awesome, it always is (OoT, MP).

[Jimbob]

Because its been in the works during 1 entire gen! Of course it's awesome, it always is (OoT, MP).

If only more Nintendo games were made like this still, then we would only be moaning about delays.

[Ren of Heavens]

Nintendo has always been a company of not just giving people what they want, or at least not what they think they want.

This causes a lot of frustration, but I think gamers are better of in the long run. Perhaps what caused the most forum outrage last generation was the annoucement of cel-shaded Zelda and the new Metroid turning into a first person shooter by a western developer. In hindsight it seems Nintendo knew what they were doing as they both became hardcore classics.

[Jimbob]

Nintendo has always been a company of not just giving people what they want, or at least not what they think they want.

This causes a lot of frustration, but I think gamers are better of in the long run. Perhaps what caused the most forum outrage last generation was the annoucement of cel-shaded Zelda and the new Metroid turning into a first person shooter by a western developer. In hindsight it seems Nintendo knew what they were doing as they both became hardcore classics.

Too true, really we should be patient like what i'm doing as such. One day, Ninty will pull through for the hardcore gamers like us here and keep us happy, and annoy the party gamers in the way we are annoyed now.

[Fierce_LiNk]

In all honesty, I think gamers are making a huge song and dance over very little. There's been complaints about their focus on casual gamers, yet we have seen Metroid Prime 3, Super Smash Bros. Brawl (which basically took melee and added a dozen other ideas, scoring it a 10/10 in lastability) and Super Mario Galaxy, which are three of the best games of this generation so far. They're great games, and there are many more out there. These are just three games which I think stand out.

There's been some great little gems too, which have been criminally underselling, because gamers have spent far too long moaning about the lack of games, instead of getting off their backsides and showing some love to these other titles. The games are there.

[Dante]

Nintendo: "Lets put out are best games quicky so that the 3rd parties will fill out the missing caps in next year"

Nintendo in late 08: "What are the 3rd parties doing! :|"

[mcj metroid]

In all honesty, I think gamers are making a huge song and dance over very little. There's been complaints about their focus on casual gamers, yet we have seen Metroid Prime 3, Super Smash Bros. Brawl (which basically took melee and added a dozen other ideas, scoring it a 10/10 in lastability) and Super Mario Galaxy, which are three of the best games of this generation so far. They're great games, and there are many more out there. These are just three games which I think stand out.

There's been some great little gems too, which have been criminally underselling, because gamers have spent far too long moaning about the lack of games, instead of getting off their backsides and showing some love to these other titles. The games are there.
2 of those were released in 07 and smash almost half a year ago i would think now..
Nobody is denying these games but christ they released plenty more in these timeframes in the gamecube era and that was a much worse time for them..

[Grazza]

I wasn't sad at all during the GameCube era. It was a period of artistic and technical brilliance, which really started with Mario Sunshine/Wind Waker and ended the day they announced Twilight Princess would be delayed (yeah, sorry to bring it up, but I strongly believe it).

Which years were these? "The N64 and the era after it," Miyamoto responds. "I was endlessly fascinated with 3D worlds...

That is why those two machines were brilliant.

The core concept of the DS was a pretty far-out idea even by Nintendo standards. "Doing that would make the system larger and essentially double the price," Miyamoto said.

The single-screen alternative would have been a much better machine. Imagine playing a 2D Metroid on an ergonomic handheld, with all the money going into graphics and processing power (or just a cheaper price tag).

[Fierce_LiNk]

2 of those were released in 07 and smash almost half a year ago i would think now..
Nobody is denying these games but christ they released plenty more in these timeframes in the gamecube era and that was a much worse time for them..

Yeah, they've been released by now, but these are games that will last. Will gamers still be playing Halo 3 by the time the fourth comes out? I don't know.

There have been other games, but like Dante says, where are the third parties? Looking back to the N64, Nintendo had Rare to deliver games like Goldeneye, which did things that Nintendo didn't do. That's exactly what third parties are there for. To fill in the gaps, and to attempt things that may not be within Nintendo's style. To reach people which maybe Nintendo have not quite reached. All third parties are doing at the moment, is either very little or jumping on the bandwagon.

Consider the games Nintendo have released, and consider the ones which they have not released. That being said, there's plenty of time for games like Pikmin, F zero, Starfox, Donkey Kong, a new Zelda and a few others to make an appearance. Given the way that the Wii has been going, they don't exactly need to be in a rush to get these games out fast. In which case, it's up to third parties to provide something. What the fuck have Capcom and Konami been up to?

[Shino]

The Legend of Zelda: Twilight Princess
Red Steel
Super Monkey Ball: Banana Blitz
Wii Sports
WarioWare: Smooth Moves
Excite Truck
Kororinpa: Marble Mania
Sonic and the Secret Rings
Eledees
Mario Strikers Charged
Metal Slug Anthology
Resident Evil 4: Wii Edition
Trauma Center: Second Opinion
Super Paper Mario
Metroid Prime 3: Corruption
Endless Ocean
Super Mario Galaxy
Dewy's Adventure
Guitar Hero III: Legends of Rock
Resident Evil: The Umbrella Chronicles
Dragon Ball Z: Budokai Tenkaichi 3
Geometry Wars: Galaxies
Zack & Wiki: Quest for Barbaros' Treasure
Battalion Wars 2
No More Heroes
Pro Evolution Soccer 2008
Mario Kart Wii
Bully: Scholarship Edition
Boom Blox
Ōkami
Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Soulcalibur Legends
De Blob
Wario Land: Shake It!
Deadly Creatures
Disaster: Day of Crisis
Trauma Center: New Blood
Wii Music
Animal Crossing: City Folk

Enough there for me, and I obviously haven't even played half of those. Add that to the games releasing this year.

[Jordan]

Yeah, they've been released by now, but these are games that will last. Will gamers still be playing Halo 3 by the time the fourth comes out? I don't know.

Considering Halo 2 is still the top most played XBOX1 game on Live and Halo 3 is consistently in the top 4 most played games on Live.

... In fact its number one this week (http://majornelson.com/archive/2009/03/10/live-activity-for-week-of-march-2nd.aspx).

I'd say yes.

[Fierce_LiNk]

Considering Halo 2 is still the top most played XBOX1 game on Live and Halo 3 is consistently in the top 4 most played games on Live.

... In fact its number one this week (http://majornelson.com/archive/2009/03/10/live-activity-for-week-of-march-2nd.aspx).

I'd say yes.

Aw well, more fool them.

[mcj metroid]

Yeah, they've been released by now, but these are games that will last. Will gamers still be playing Halo 3 by the time the fourth comes out? I don't know.

There have been other games, but like Dante says, where are the third parties? Looking back to the N64, Nintendo had Rare to deliver games like Goldeneye, which did things that Nintendo didn't do. That's exactly what third parties are there for. To fill in the gaps, and to attempt things that may not be within Nintendo's style. To reach people which maybe Nintendo have not quite reached. All third parties are doing at the moment, is either very little or jumping on the bandwagon.

Consider the games Nintendo have released, and consider the ones which they have not released. That being said, there's plenty of time for games like Pikmin, F zero, Starfox, Donkey Kong, a new Zelda and a few others to make an appearance. Given the way that the Wii has been going, they don't exactly need to be in a rush to get these games out fast. In which case, it's up to third parties to provide something. What the fuck have Capcom and Konami been up to?
it's true but otherwise this is also nintendos problem.. The gamecube had a third party problem too hell the n64 had the worst one but there was always that one nintendo game to look forward to.. That big one you know..
what is there now? Can you honestly name me one massive nintendo title in the near future?
theres very little if anything.. All they are releasing at the moment is remakes of gamecube titles.. NIntendo have become their own worst enemy here.

[Fierce_LiNk]

it's true but otherwise this is also nintendos problem.. The gamecube had a third party problem too hell the n64 had the worst one but there was always that one nintendo game to look forward to.. That big one you know..
what is there now? Can you honestly name me one massive nintendo title in the near future?
theres very little if anything.. All they are releasing at the moment is remakes of gamecube titles.. NIntendo have become their own worst enemy here.

At the moment, third parties seemed to have stepped up their game, somewhat. We've got Madworld soon, we've just had House of the Dead: Overkill, and there's The Conduit on the horizon. As such, there isn't a big big Nintendo title on the way. So, this really is filler time. The next big one according to Nintendo would probably be the next WiiSports. But, you and I know that they've always got something big waiting. Wouldn't surprise me if they showed some footage of the next Zelda or something in the next few months, for example.

As for Nintendo becoming their own worst enemy, that's probably true. But, I guess, at the moment...they kinda can afford to be. What Nintendo need is some dangerous competition (if Microsoft and Sony steppeed it up over nine thousaaaand) and that'll cause them to get stuff done quicker. Give Nintendo a lead, and they'll relax.

[Emasher]

If we compare this to the same time in the GC lifespan, we were just coming out of a drought also. Anyone remember 2003, when Shingsy's big E3 game was a remake of Pac-Man? That was 5 years before 2008, the general console lifespan.

[Ren of Heavens]

Yeah, it's funny how easily people forget. The latter half of the Gamecube era was awful. There were basically no triple-A Nintendo games the last two years prior to Wii.

Nintendo games released in the US between November 19, 2004 - November 19, 2006 (Wii launch):

Battalion Wars
Chibi-Robo!
Dance Dance Revolution: Mario Mix
Donkey Kong Jungle Beat
Donkey Konga 2
Fire Emblem: Path of Radiance
Geist
Mario Party 6
Mario Party 7
Mario Superstar Baseball
Odama
Pokemon XD
Star Fox: Assault
Super Mario Strikers


So then, to put this into perspective, the Wii came out and Nintendo gave us Zelda: Twilight Princess, Metroid Prime 3, Super Mario Galaxy, Smash Bros. Brawl, Fire Emblem: Radiant Dawn, Excite Truck, Super Paper Mario and Mario Kart Wii within a year and a half... Nintendo abandoning the hardcore with Wii, eh?

[or else you will DIE]

2 of those games were suppose to be Gamecube games in the first place.

[Pit-Jr]

'' If Nintendo's games fail to sell billions of copies each like Wii Play and Nintendogs, then it shows that the creation process is for nothing, which made me very sad. That was especially obvious during the GameCube era; Nintendo titles were hardly even purchased by the [non-gaming] general public back then."

Fixed for accuracy. Look, he was sad because Nintendo developed and/or published excellent games that resulted in mediocre sales due to marketing them with a purple cube. But this whole interview, hes trying to fault the games themselves which were brilliant more often than not.

Is this the same sadness that provoked the relaunch of Gamecube games for Play on Wii? Whatever you say, Miya!

[mcj metroid]

Yeah, it's funny how easily people forget. The latter half of the Gamecube era was awful. There were basically no triple-A Nintendo games the last two years prior to Wii.

Nintendo games released in the US between November 19, 2004 - November 19, 2006 (Wii launch):

Battalion Wars
Chibi-Robo!
Dance Dance Revolution: Mario Mix
Donkey Kong Jungle Beat
Donkey Konga 2
Fire Emblem: Path of Radiance
Geist
Mario Party 6
Mario Party 7
Mario Superstar Baseball
Odama
Pokemon XD
Star Fox: Assault
Super Mario Strikers


So then, to put this into perspective, the Wii came out and Nintendo gave us Zelda: Twilight Princess, Metroid Prime 3, Super Mario Galaxy, Smash Bros. Brawl, Fire Emblem: Radiant Dawn, Excite Truck, Super Paper Mario and Mario Kart Wii within a year and a half... Nintendo abandoning the hardcore with Wii, eh?
for a dying console that was still an impressive amount of games. gamecube however had some very quality(although limited) titles to back that up. Wii doesn't seem to have much of that at all.

[darkjak]

Nintendo: "Lets put out are best games quicky so that the 3rd parties will fill out the missing caps in next year"

Nintendo in late 08: "What are the 3rd parties doing! :|"

The sad truth!

Before, Nintendo were much more keen on being the best. When Goldeneye got released, it was a square kick in the scrotum towards all developers on the face of the planet, because it was the best FPS out there!

When Zelda:OoT got released, Nintendo gamers were laughing their ass off when PSOne players were claiming that Medievil was worth two shits, and when they said that cartridges can't fit good games.

When Nintendo released 1080, all other extreme sports games out there seemed to have been developed in scrotumville, by someones bowel bacterial flora.

When Excitebike 64 was released, there was no better motocross game out there.

When people wanted MGS, Nintendo MADE SURE we'd get MGS. When Capcom didn't want to release a scratch made RE game for the N64, Nintendo ordered Eternal Darkness (even though it did get released at a time when Capcom wanted to release GC exclusive remakes of ALL RE games, and a bunch of scratch made ones).

Nintendo are slacking. Sure, we're looking forward to Sin and Punishment 2, and Nintendo now have an official idea to not announce games until right before release, but we haven't actually seen that many mindblowing games.
Mario Galaxy, and Metroid Prime are the only ones I can come up with at the moment.

A company selling hardware can't go "and now we'll do what we wanna do, and then other companies will do the other stuff for us", which is what Nintendo have done now.


People keep claiming that Nintendo are being innovative, but really?

[Teppo Holmqvist]

A company selling hardware can't go "and now we'll do what we wanna do, and then other companies will do the other stuff for us", which is what Nintendo have done now.

Actually they can, and this is how it has worked in the past for all winning consoles. The problem is that it is taken more than two years, over billion dollar in losses, and recession for 3rd parties to realize that Wii isn't fad and there is no great comeback for HD-consoles.

People keep claiming that Nintendo are being innovative, but really?

Throwing money randonmly and bribing development to get exclusives is hardly innovative. It is archaic, expensive, and proven to have no effect on console performance, although butthurt fanboys want to think otherwise. They think that pissing 6 billion dollars a'la Sony into air is innovative and sustainable.

That Nintendo has been able to create strategy where its competition doesn't practically matter, that is innovative. With few well placed maneuvers, they have turned market upside down, and made people who thought they knew the market look and act like fools. Nintendo's strategy is already used as a case in better universities, and it will be studied for years to come.

[Serebii]

Really wish some people would stop saying Nintendo has nothing hardcore in the works. Can't they realise that just because we don't see it doesn't mean it doesn't exist. Just look at games like Excitebots. If we go by their logic, its only just started being developed for release next month

[The Lillster]

To be honest. I count one "new" game there.

As awesome as Brawl was, it was Melee with polish and a few new features... And a massively broken online component.

Animal Crossing was lazy as hell. Its the SAME game we've had for the last 4 iterations with a few new features each release. Why aren't they ambitious? I don't want to give Tom Nook my bells anymore... or collect fossils, again.

Mario Kart Wii is fantastic. Sure the AI is a little cheap, but its probably the best MK since MK64.

I'll put it this way. My favourite game of the last decade is Mario Galaxy. I fucking LOVE that game. Why isn't there more like this on the Wii? It looks beautiful, it sounded astounding, the level design was perfect and the mechanics were awesome! Why not more like this?

As Iwata said, development time for these 'deluxe' type games, take pretty much double the development time of the casual, touch generations type games. If you look back at the N64 and GCN generations, you would know that the big titles take time to come out. The only reason why the GCN and N64 eras seem better, was because of the userbase. If a developer was to put a casual game on the n64 or gcn, it would have likely have failed. Therefore devs didn't bother with it.

Now that Nintendo is market leader with both the DS and the Wii, the devs and publishers don't mind taking the risk.

Unfortunatly for traditional Wii gamers, the devs only see wii as a 'secondary' system.

Luckily some can afford an Xbox or PS3, for the high-quality titles.

For those that can't, all they can do is hope that they don't have to wait too long for the next big game.

[Ren of Heavens]

I'm not saying the Gamecube was bad, but I think many are looking back on it with rose-tinted glasses. I would say there was about just as much complaining by the hardcore back then:

You had the underwhelming launch with no killer Mario game as expected, just Luigi's Mansion og Wave Race: Blue Storm from Nintendo. When the Mario game finally arrived it was considered a big disappointment among hardcore fans. Rare being sold off to Microsoft caused hysteria. Then you had all the European delays. The console itself being released six months after America, Metroid Prime being delayed from November to March making Star Fox Adventures the big holiday 2002 title in Europe and the two year Animal Crossing delay. All the GC/GBA connectivity gimmicks. The annualy fairly awful Mario Party games and so on...

[Teppo Holmqvist]

As Iwata said, development time for these 'deluxe' type games, take pretty much double the development time of the casual, touch generations type games.

Indeed. Let's take Excitebots as a example. Monster Games has been working on it for more than 24 months, and they even had engine / basic concept to recycle.

[Nicktendo]

Throwing money randonmly and bribing development to get exclusives is hardly innovative. It is archaic, expensive, and proven to have no effect on console performance, although butthurt fanboys want to think otherwise. They think that pissing 6 billion dollars a'la Sony into air is innovative and sustainable.

That Nintendo has been able to create strategy where its competition doesn't practically matter, that is innovative. With few well placed maneuvers, they have turned market upside down, and made people who thought they knew the market look and act like fools. Nintendo's strategy is already used as a case in better universities, and it will be studied for years to come.

Uhm, This. Excellent point.

The Wii has been out 2 years. It has had 4 BLOCKBUSTER games from Nintendo, all of which have been in development for 2+ years, some longer (Smash Bros, Galaxy, Zelda, Prime 3). Then there's the likes of Mario Kart and Animal Crossing ('bridge' titles) which may seem a little 'cheap' but still provide a lot of quality gaming time. And of course your casual hits, Wii Music, Fit and Sports which are all very good 'games' ;).

Now will someone please tell me when, in the first 2 years of a home console Nintendo has released this many quality games, let alone 4 blockbusters. Everyone needs to stop complaining. Original IP's, resurrections of 'dead franchises' (Punch Out/Sin and Punishment, Kid Icarus?), Sequals to Zelda, Pikmin et al are all almost guarenteed to be in development. The 2nd party support is consistantly good, if a little under appreciated by Nintendo themselves and there is a 3rd Party library already out which is very respectable (Godfather, NMH, Zack and Wiki, HotD:OK, need I go on?). And then you've got a 3rd party 2009 line-up that will knock the socks off the Cube and N64's entire 3rd party library. Capping it all off; Wii motionplus, anyone? Take a look at the developer diary videos on IGN from EA.

Stop complaining. Start gaming.

[The Lillster]

I'm not saying the Gamecube was bad, but I think many are looking back on it with rose-tinted glasses. I would say there was about just as much complaining by the hardcore back then:

You had the underwhelming launch with no killer Mario game as expected, just Luigi's Mansion og Wave Race: Blue Storm from Nintendo. When the Mario game finally arrived it was considered a big disappointment among hardcore fans. Rare being sold off to Microsoft caused hysteria. Then you had all the European delays. The console itself being released six months after America, Metroid Prime being delayed from November to March making Star Fox Adventures the big holiday 2002 title in Europe and the two year Animal Crossing delay. All the GC/GBA connectivity gimmicks. The annualy fairly awful Mario Party games and so on...

I pretty much agree 100%.

I think the problem is, some people only really get excited about new games. If there isn't any new games that appeal to them, then they lose interest in that particular system.

But I bet theres quite a few games already released that those particular people would enjoy, but because theres so much negative feedback from random people on forums and magazines, people don't bother to look.

[Grazza]

Yeah, it's funny how easily people forget. The latter half of the Gamecube era was awful. There were basically no triple-A Nintendo games the last two years prior to Wii.

Nintendo games released in the US between November 19, 2004 - November 19, 2006 (Wii launch):

Battalion Wars
Chibi-Robo!
Dance Dance Revolution: Mario Mix
Donkey Kong Jungle Beat
Donkey Konga 2
Fire Emblem: Path of Radiance
Geist
Mario Party 6
Mario Party 7
Mario Superstar Baseball
Odama
Pokemon XD
Star Fox: Assault
Super Mario Strikers

The massive difference, I feel, was that the GameCube had many of the multi-format games. My big games for Christmas 2005 were Incredible Hulk: Ultimate Destruction (excellent) and Ultimate Spider-Man. It may not have helped Nintendo, but it did make a big difference to how much I enjoyed the machine.

Plus, that list is not that bad - there is not a AAA in it, but we were looking forward to Twilight Princess - it was an exciting time. The GameCube had at least five "mega" games - Mario Sunshine, Wind Waker, Metroid Prime, Pikmin 2 and Twilight Princess, whereas the Wii only has Mario Galaxy and maybe Metroid Prime 3 so far. They really need to give us Zelda and something like Kid Icarus before they can say there are a similar amount of mega games.

[Shino]

You have freaking punch that's coming in MAY! That's a month and a half from now and it was announced in October! That's one high profile game that no giving credit because there wasn't enough time to hype, which is basically what the hardcore media e game live for.

[The Lillster]

They really need to give us Zelda and something like Kid Icarus before they can say there are a similar amount of mega games.

For that to happen these 'mega' games need to sell at least the same or more than the 'mega' games being released on the HD machines.

Obviously something like Madworld isn't going to appeal to the extended, non-gamer audiance. Basicly it's not going to sell as well as somthing like Wii fit or Mario & Sonic. But if there is an audiance for these adult oriented type games (and I believe there is) we should be seeing more dedication from developers for these types of experiances.


I'm talking about 3rd party and Nintendo btw.

[Ren of Heavens]

The GameCube had at least five "mega" games - Mario Sunshine, Wind Waker, Metroid Prime, Pikmin 2 and Twilight Princess, whereas the Wii only has Mario Galaxy and maybe Metroid Prime 3 so far. They really need to give us Zelda and something like Kid Icarus before they can say there are a similar amount of mega games.
Then you count TP as a GC-only title. If you look at the first two years of GC only Sunshine and Metroid Prime had been released of these "mega" games.

I'm really not that worried. Sin & Punishment 2 will be released later this year. We know Pikmin 3 is in development, we know a new Zelda is in development, a Super Mario platformer is in the works, Retro is working on their next big thing, a new Kirby is on its way, Monolith software, known for their RPGs, is working on something unknown, Intelligent Systems has not released a new Wii games since Paper Mario and Fire Emblem, NST is working on an untitled Wii game...

[darkjak]

For that to happen these 'mega' games need to sell at least the same or more than the 'mega' games being released on the HD machines.


Actually, no. HD games need to sell a lot more than any Wii game because of the high development costs. If I remember correctly, for Killzone 2 to BREAK EVEN it needs to sell a fair bit over six milion copies.

Nintendo have cash hanging out their butt, but they don't seem to know what to do with it.

Why not create a spiritual successor to Goldeneye and Perfect Dark, a racer that will kick Gran Turismo and Forza in the nuts, an Excitebike that will make it seem that the competition had never existed, a 1080 that will wipe the floor with SSX.

Nintendo have the cash, the know how and a console that allows them to make kick ass games with fairly small ammounts of cash, and make money despite mediocre sales. Really, what's stopping them?

[jammy2211]

Actually, no. HD games need to sell a lot more than any Wii game because of the high development costs. If I remember correctly, for Killzone 2 to BREAK EVEN it needs to sell a fair bit over six milion copies.

Nintendo have cash hanging out their butt, but they don't seem to know what to do with it.

Why not create a spiritual successor to Goldeneye and Perfect Dark, a racer that will kick Gran Turismo and Forza in the nuts, an Excitebike that will make it seem that the competition had never existed, a 1080 that will wipe the floor with SSX.

Nintendo have the cash, the know how and a console that allows them to make kick ass games with fairly small ammounts of cash, and make money despite mediocre sales. Really, what's stopping them?


Killzone 2 doesn't need to sell anywhere near that much to break even :shakehead.

But er, why don't they make them? Cause they tried doing that, for about a decade, and Sony kicked their arses.

[Jonnas]

Actually, no. HD games need to sell a lot more than any Wii game because of the high development costs. If I remember correctly, for Killzone 2 to BREAK EVEN it needs to sell a fair bit over six milion copies.

Nintendo have cash hanging out their butt, but they don't seem to know what to do with it.

Why not create a spiritual successor to Goldeneye and Perfect Dark, a racer that will kick Gran Turismo and Forza in the nuts, an Excitebike that will make it seem that the competition had never existed, a 1080 that will wipe the floor with SSX.

Nintendo have the cash, the know how and a console that allows them to make kick ass games with fairly small ammounts of cash, and make money despite mediocre sales. Really, what's stopping them?

So...cash=quality? Dude, that's very far from the truth. A perfectly good game can be made with a low budget, and a high-cost game can end up crappy.

And do you really think they can easily surpass a good franchise that spent several games refining its formula? That's like saying the new TMNT fighting game could surpass Tekken, Street Fighter or Smash Bros, just because there's effort going into it.

And seriously, the only reason the Wii has three "AAA games" it's because those three had tons of hype going into the launch. The games that didn't have that kind of hype are rarely mentioned, despite being as much deserving.

[Tellyn]

To be fair, most of the people complaining here probably haven't touched WiiWare or several third-party gems lurking on the Wii.

[Ren of Heavens]

Yeah, those who hasn't tried out games such as World of Goo, MaBoShi, Bomberman Blast, Zack & Wiki, Boom Blox and Strong Bad has nothing to complain about.

[mcj metroid]

Actually, no. HD games need to sell a lot more than any Wii game because of the high development costs. If I remember correctly, for Killzone 2 to BREAK EVEN it needs to sell a fair bit over six milion copies.

Nintendo have cash hanging out their butt, but they don't seem to know what to do with it.

Why not create a spiritual successor to Goldeneye and Perfect Dark, a racer that will kick Gran Turismo and Forza in the nuts, an Excitebike that will make it seem that the competition had never existed, a 1080 that will wipe the floor with SSX.

Nintendo have the cash, the know how and a console that allows them to make kick ass games with fairly small ammounts of cash, and make money despite mediocre sales. Really, what's stopping them?

something like gran turismo is something other console will always do better and not the type of game that would sell well or benefit on the wii.. Sure it would be nice to have a bit of everything but realstic games have always taken a back seat on nintendo hardware. Stick to what they're good at.

[Pookiablo]

I just don't think Nintendo, or any game company for that matter pump out games of amazing quality anymore. Super Mario Galaxy was the only exception. Most games are just generic and they either boast fancy graphics or some overloved IP that helps them to sell. Take a look at Brawl for example - it's basically Melee with a few extra modes and a very, very badly made online mode. That's not enough of an advancement if you ask me. At least make the game work properly.

The Gamecube was "saddening" because all it tried to do was what the N64 did but with flashier graphics and sound. There's very little "new" in these games. Sure, N64 took the massive leap into proper 3D Nintendo gaming and therefore it might be a bit unfair for me to say that I expected something similar with the Cube, but I just found the general quality and polish of most Gamecube games to be lacking compared to such incredible N64 titles like Perfect Dark. Even today that game defines gaming better than most of the shite we're seeing.

[Grazza]

For that to happen these 'mega' games need to sell at least the same or more than the 'mega' games being released on the HD machines.

I disagree with that, because it's Nintendo's duty to kit the machine out with a reasonable amount of top class games in the first place, regardless of sales. Once there is a decent line-up of Mario, Zelda, F-Zero, Pikmin, Metroid etc, there is enough reason to buy the machine (a daft comment, I know, as it's mega successful!)

Then you count TP as a GC-only title. If you look at the first two years of GC only Sunshine and Metroid Prime had been released of these "mega" games.

Well, I do see it as a GameCube game, even though I have both versions. I just can't see it as a system seller for the Wii, not to those who have followed Nintendo for many years. After all, we spent 2004, 2005 and 2006 awaiting it as it was designed on the 'Cube. It's just like Resident Evil 4 and Okami - I've got no complaints about them, but I can't see them as system sellers for the Wii when they were on older consoles. I know Twilight Princess is not strictly a "port", but it's close enough.

I'm really not that worried. Sin & Punishment 2 will be released later this year. We know Pikmin 3 is in development, we know a new Zelda is in development, a Super Mario platformer is in the works, Retro is working on their next big thing, a new Kirby is on its way, Monolith software, known for their RPGs, is working on something unknown, Intelligent Systems has not released a new Wii games since Paper Mario and Fire Emblem, NST is working on an untitled Wii game...

I think things are looking quite rosy. They'll probably do enough, but it's not certain yet. Zelda's all I need anyway. I honestly don't think there'll be another Mario platformer on the Wii - I think that team is working on Pikmin 3 instead, but that's good in itself.

[Ren of Heavens]

By the way, just got Edge #200 with a new top 100 games list. Two N64 games, OoT (1) and Mario 64 (2), tops the list. RE4 is 4. Mario Galaxy at 8. First Nintendo-made GC game is Wind Waker at 23.

[Emasher]

Probably the reason so many N64 games were so good was because they were the first of their kind in 3D. If Twilight princess with worse graphics had been released instead of OoT, and OoT had been released instead of TP with better graphics, we would be praising TP now, not OoT.

In regards to EAD Tokyo. Nintendo never said they were working on a Mario game, they just said the team that did Mario galaxy was making a new game. So they probably are the team that is working on Pikmin 3. I have this odd feeling that there was a mistake in Reggie's speech at E3 and he was supposed to say "The team that made Mario Galaxy is working on a new Pikmin game" Hence why Shingsy mentioned it at that little demo event. I doubt we're going to see another Main Series Mario game on the Wii.

[Ren of Heavens]

It depends on how long this generation will last. I have a feeling it will be longer than the usual 5 years. I don't think we'll see a new Ninty console until 2012 at the earliest. Maybe 2013 or even 2014.

[Emasher]

I'm thinking it gets talked about a lot next year, gets revealed the next year, and comes out the following year (The next console, not a new Mario game). The Wii is already starting the slow down a bit.

[darksnowman]

Did Miyamoto himself not say he would like to make a successor to Galaxy on the Wii?

[Emasher]

Did Miyamoto himself not say he would like to make a successor to Galaxy on the Wii?

By the time they get it made though, even if they already started working on it, I think it'll probably just get pushed to the new console.

[Teppo Holmqvist]

By the time they get it made though, even if they already started working on it, I think it'll probably just get pushed to the new console.

But then again, this is first time in 14 years that Nintendo's homeconsole will have full cycle.

[darkjak]

So...cash=quality? Dude, that's very far from the truth. A perfectly good game can be made with a low budget, and a high-cost game can end up crappy.

I've stated the opposite. On the Wii you DON'T need any absurd ammounts of cash to create a high quality game. On the HD formats it's a different matter.


And do you really think they can easily surpass a good franchise that spent several games refining its formula? That's like saying the new TMNT fighting game could surpass Tekken, Street Fighter or Smash Bros, just because there's effort going into it.

Nintendo have done it before. Goldeneye crapped in Dooms, Quakes and Duke Nukems face when it came out. Excitebike 64 owned all other motorcycle games, and really do you remember any snowboard games before SSX, beyond 1080? Nintendo have so many cunning people that they could easilly create something that'll change a genre forever.

Killzone 2 doesn't need to sell anywhere near that much to break even :shakehead.

Actually yes. The game cost about 30 milion Euros to develop. I believe that number was named in the latest Game Reactor.


But er, why don't they make them? Cause they tried doing that, for about a decade, and Sony kicked their arses.
They did? As far as I remember, Goldeneye sold 8 milion copies, and MGS, 1080, Excitebike 64, Perfect Dark all came out into the Players Choice series.
Sony have only kicked Nintendos asses in a select few genres, like racing.
But that's because Nintendo DIDN'T try to get an equivelant, despite lots of Nintendo fans wanting it for a decade. When I read Nintendo magazines, there were allways people sending in letters asking if Nintendo are developing a Gran Turismo beater. First it was explainable: the cartridges can't fit the 600 cars of GT2, or even the 150 cars of GT1. But on the GC it became a lot more questinable.
Neither did Nintendo get an equivelant to Tekken or Virtua Fighter. Nintendo were NEVER competing propperly.

Developing these types of games would generate quite a bit of proffit, plus it could restore Nintendo's reputation.


And well, at least I don't recall the N64 being considered a kiddy console. I don't at all remember stubling across the debate until after the WW release.

[Teppo Holmqvist]

They did? As far as I remember, Goldeneye sold 8 milion copies, and MGS, 1080, Excitebike 64, Perfect Dark all came out into the Players Choice series.

Goldeneye did sell around 8 million, but rest of the games you mentioned certainly didn't break over two million. Twin Snakes certainly sold less than million.

[mcj metroid]

Probably the reason so many N64 games were so good was because they were the first of their kind in 3D. If Twilight princess with worse graphics had been released instead of OoT, and OoT had been released instead of TP with better graphics, we would be praising TP now, not OoT.

In regards to EAD Tokyo. Nintendo never said they were working on a Mario game, they just said the team that did Mario galaxy was making a new game. So they probably are the team that is working on Pikmin 3. I have this odd feeling that there was a mistake in Reggie's speech at E3 and he was supposed to say "The team that made Mario Galaxy is working on a new Pikmin game" Hence why Shingsy mentioned it at that little demo event. I doubt we're going to see another Main Series Mario game on the Wii.
there wernt THAT may good n64 games though.. I mean there were 15 very good games and after that its downhill time.

the ONLY reason oot and mario 64 were so good is because he spended all his time on them without getting distracted unlike the way he carries on today.

[Pookiablo]

there wernt THAT may good n64 games though.. I mean there were 15 very good games and after that its downhill time.

the ONLY reason oot and mario 64 were so good is because he spended all his time on them without getting distracted unlike the way he carries on today.

You're kidding? There's a fuckload of excellent N64 games, most of which have way more polish and effort dedicated to them than any of the drivel that the Wii has seen so far. Sure, there's some stinkers but on the whole there's a lot more shit available for the Wii now than there ever was for the N64!

[mcj metroid]

You're kidding? There's a fuckload of excellent N64 games, most of which have way more polish and effort dedicated to them than any of the drivel that the Wii has seen so far. Sure, there's some stinkers but on the whole there's a lot more shit available for the Wii now than there ever was for the N64!

who cares if there are more terrible games.. It's the more good games that's important.. At least in the first 2 years of the n64 there was barely anything released..sure there were classic games like OOT and goldeneye but these were far and few between and third party was very very poor for n64.

[Jonnas]

You're kidding? There's a fuckload of excellent N64 games, most of which have way more polish and effort dedicated to them than any of the drivel that the Wii has seen so far. Sure, there's some stinkers but on the whole there's a lot more shit available for the Wii now than there ever was for the N64!

I second mcj. Why measure the quality of a console by things you can easily ignore?

As far as I recall, N64 had horrid 3rd party support. All the 1st party support it had was about the same that the Wii is having now.

The difference is, people like to focus on what they find negative:

"Mario Galaxy is great! Wanna play something else?"
"Wii Sports is boring!"
"Well, I also have SSBB, Mario Kart, Wii Fit..."
"Wii Fit sucks! This console sucks!"
"Metroid, Fire Emblem, Wario Land, WarioWare, Wii Music..."
"Wii Music? There really is nothing here!"

[Teppo Holmqvist]

As far as I recall, N64 had horrid 3rd party support.

N64 had 228 games released in the US during its lifetime. This number includes roughly fifty first party games. Even Dreamcast managed to get more releases during its two year lifetime, if I recall correctly.

[Caris]

To be honest. I count one "new" game there.

As awesome as Brawl was, it was Melee with polish and a few new features... And a massively broken online component.

Animal Crossing was lazy as hell. Its the SAME game we've had for the last 4 iterations with a few new features each release. Why aren't they ambitious? I don't want to give Tom Nook my bells anymore... or collect fossils, again.

Mario Kart Wii is fantastic. Sure the AI is a little cheap, but its probably the best MK since MK64.

I'll put it this way. My favourite game of the last decade is Mario Galaxy. I fucking LOVE that game. Why isn't there more like this on the Wii? It looks beautiful, it sounded astounding, the level design was perfect and the mechanics were awesome! Why not more like this?

Just leave it mate, you enter this forum and you just get beef off everyone because there sick of it like you but wont admit it. Oh and i totally agree with you about Brawl, i bought a Wii again for it and took it back 2 days later.

[Teppo Holmqvist]

Just leave it mate, you enter this forum and you just get beef off everyone because there sick of it like you but wont admit it. Oh and i totally agree with you about Brawl, i bought a Wii again for it and took it back 2 days later.

Could you crawl back to your hole? I have talked with more than few ex N-Europeans, and you, and few certain other posters were claimed as main reason for stopping posting. You and your pals basically terrorized part of the community away, and you still act like you own this fucking place. As moderation isn't doing anything, I'm really starting to wonder should I bring this matter directly to the Advanced Media INC. There is no reason why Nintendo users should accept being bullied and treated like a second class citizens on a site that is dedicated for them.

[King_V]

Could you crawl back to your hole? I have talked with more than few ex N-Europeans, and you, and few certain other posters were claimed as main reason for stopping posting. You and your pals basically terrorized part of the community away, and you still act like you own this fucking place. As moderation isn't doing anything, I'm really starting to wonder should I bring this matter directly to the Advanced Media INC. There is no reason why Nintendo users should accept being bullied and treated like a second class citizens on a site that is dedicated for them.

OH FOR GOD's SAKE! Could someone please put a TIT in this guys mouth? Always fucking causing arguments.

[Teppo Holmqvist]

OH FOR GOD's SAKE! Could someone please put a TIT in this guys mouth? Always fucking causing arguments.

Ah, and quote above comes from the guy who wrote shitty essays purely for trolling purposes and for stirring shit.

[D_prOdigy]

If Teppo asked, he could have my cock in his mouth.

This place needs some home truths.

[Caris]

Could you crawl back to your hole? I have talked with more than few ex N-Europeans, and you, and few certain other posters were claimed as main reason for stopping posting. You and your pals basically terrorized part of the community away, and you still act like you own this fucking place. As moderation isn't doing anything, I'm really starting to wonder should I bring this matter directly to the Advanced Media INC. There is no reason why Nintendo users should accept being bullied and treated like a second class citizens on a site that is dedicated for them.

I am one step closer to my dream.

[Pit-Jr]

Teppo, you know you LOVE posting your little tirades against the sinister PS3/360 userbase. Otherwise your post count would be zero. If people didnt say anything negative about Nintendo youd have NOTHING to talk about.

[D_prOdigy]

Teppo, you know you LOVE posting your little tirades against the sinister PS3/360 userbase. Otherwise your post count would be zero. If people didnt say anything negative about Nintendo youd have NOTHING to talk about.

But he doesn't go on a crusade to shit all over the Other Consoles board. There's nothing out-of-place in having pro-Nintendo views on a Wii Board. Taking any 'tirades' one may have to the actual place they so despise is pathetic.

[Pit-Jr]

I realize this is a Nintendo forum , its why i joined in the first place. Little did i know that you have to love and agree with everything Nintendo does to post here or else your an 'idiot' or a 'troll' or an 'elitist' or any of the other mud that gets slung here lately

[Emasher]

I realize this is a Nintendo forum , its why i joined in the first place. Little did i know that you have to love and agree with everything Nintendo does to post here or else your an 'idiot' or a 'troll' or an 'elitist' or any of the other mud that gets slung here lately

I think the point is that as soon as a good positive discussion starts going, someone comes in and expresses ultra negative views and the whole thing turns into an argument. Its especially annoying when someone comes into the Wii board and starts praising another console and saying the Wii sucks and has no good games.

[Caris]

I realize this is a Nintendo forum , its why i joined in the first place. Little did i know that you have to love and agree with everything Nintendo does to post here or else your an 'idiot' or a 'troll' or an 'elitist' or any of the other mud that gets slung here lately

Exactly. I've owned pretty much every Nintendo console over the past 10 years. I would'nt have joined here if I didn't like them, but no matter what any one says I think the Wii is a disgrace.

[Pit-Jr]

I think the point is that as soon as a good positive discussion starts going, someone comes in and expresses ultra negative views and the whole thing turns into an argument. Its especially annoying when someone comes into the Wii board and starts praising another console and saying the Wii sucks and has no good games.


Ok but take this thread for instance, Miyamoto claiming he was sad when he had to make those terrible trendy GC games that i fucking loved like Wind Waker and Pikmin. I want to call BS on the whole interview but im scared ill get crucified here

[Roklie]

If Miyamoto was sad during the GC era then I guess I'm the one being sad now, as a gamer.

[Emasher]

Ok but take this thread for instance, Miyamoto claiming he was sad when he had to make those terrible trendy GC games that i fucking loved like Wind Waker and Pikmin. I want to call BS on the whole interview but im scared ill get crucified here

He was sad that the games didn't stand out, not that he had to make the games.

[Captain Falcon]

Ok but take this thread for instance, Miyamoto claiming he was sad when he had to make those terrible trendy GC games that i fucking loved like Wind Waker and Pikmin. I want to call BS on the whole interview but im scared ill get crucified here

I think you may have misunderstood the comments being made by Miyamoto.

The way I read it was that he felt pressured to do things in a certain ways thanks to the success of other consoles, and that ultimately stifled creativity at Nintendo.

He's not so much unhappy with what they did release, but he felt that they could have done more had the situation be different.

Unless I'm misunderstanding him.

[Pit-Jr]

I could be misunderstanding his poor choice of words but it still just sounds like PR fluff to me. If those GC games had amazing sales numbers, this interview would look a whole lot different, is all im saying

[Teppo Holmqvist]

Its especially annoying when someone comes into the Wii board and starts praising another console and saying the Wii sucks and has no good games.

This. This is extremely rude and annoying, and goes against every rule of good discussion. Its like I would go to soccer forums, and started discussion how about soccer sucks, and ice hockey is so much better. I would never do that, because what it would serve? What I am going to gain by pissing off other people? Why can't we just can't live in harmony? But no, let's push our ideals down from the others throat.

I think that the problem here is the anonimity like always. When people aren't speaking face to face, they start to do stupid things that they would never do normally. That is why I use my real name.

[D_prOdigy]

I want to call BS on the whole interview but im scared ill get crucified here

You've just nailed it.

I believe a 12 yeat old would use something along the lines of "you can dish it but you can't take it"

Everyone can have opinions, but it baffles me as to why some people think they're exempt from any criticism of their views.

[Pookiablo]

This. This is extremely rude and annoying, and goes against every rule of good discussion. Its like I would go to soccer forums, and started discussion how about soccer sucks, and ice hockey is so much better. I would never do that, because what it would serve? What I am going to gain by pissing off other people? Why can't we just can't live in harmony? But no, let's push our ideals down from the others throat.

I think that the problem here is the anonimity like always. When people aren't speaking face to face, they start to do stupid things that they would never do normally. That is why I use my real name.

As much as I agree with you in terms of practically (yes you should join a Nintendo forum if you're a Nintendo fan and you shouldn't rabbit on about how much better the competitor is), we're still nevertheless allowed to criticise things.

As for the responses to my N64 comment earlier, yes 3rd party support was pretty poor but some very decent 3rd party games did make their way onto the console (Rogue Squadron anyone?). The console boasts some of the best games ever made, even if it did sell horribly. And no, I'm not speaking from the arse fountain of nostalgia - I still play my N64 almost daily (currently working my way through Banjo, Jet Force Gemini and Fighters' Destiny).

Part of the reason why I personally feel the games on N64 were surperior is because of Rare - without them the N64 would have suffered a much quicker death. So many classics were developed by them. This is of course, not so much the case anymore, I don't think Rare are quite the company they used to be (I still have yet to try the latest Banjo though so I'll reserve judgement until I do so).

I'm not saying that Wii boasts no good games whatsoever - I've thoroughly enjoyed playing my Wii and most of the titles I've come across and as I said, many new iterations of old classics such as Galaxy and Mario Kart Wii are in my opinion, the best yet. But in regards to the choice and range of quality gaming, I feel the Wii is severely lacking. I suppose Wiiware is helping out on this front however.

[Stealthttd]

I think what makes me sad a a wii owner is all the junk that gets dumped on it all the time.. Most games made are lazy cashing in games and it gets to the point were its sick. I remeber when resident evil 4 came out again everyone was like if this game sells it will show capcom and they will make new better games.. years later we get a hotd clone with resident evil's name slapped on and a couple of ports of games that we already own. Thats what is sad.

the postives i look at is there is alot of stuff i dont know.. I dont know what the hell retro is doing atm... nintendo says they have a new zelda in dev.. stuff like that

I have only ever owned a nintendo system and wii is by far the sadest of them all just by the amount of cheep cashing in dev dump on it.. yes even nintendo. Its a sad day for gaming for me when profit>quilty. But then again they are a company out to make money thats what they want most so i cant blame them

[Caris]

I think what makes me sad a a wii owner is all the junk that gets dumped on it all the time.. Most games made are lazy cashing in games and it gets to the point were its sick. I remeber when resident evil 4 came out again everyone was like if this game sells it will show capcom and they will make new better games.. years later we get a hotd clone with resident evil's name slapped on and a couple of ports of games that we already own. Thats what is sad.

the postives i look at is there is alot of stuff i dont know.. I dont know what the hell retro is doing atm... nintendo says they have a new zelda in dev.. stuff like that

I have only ever owned a nintendo system and wii is by far the sadest of them all just by the amount of cheep cashing in dev dump on it.. yes even nintendo. Its a sad day for gaming for me when profit>quilty. But then again they are a company out to make money thats what they want most so i cant blame them

Seriously, everyone in the Wii forum should take note of this user. He is a Wii onwer and speaks the exact truth.

That is was needed to be said.

[Fierce_LiNk]

Jesus fucking christ, will you just leave it alone?

This is the Wii forum, and we can't talk about the Wii without it getting put down all the fucking time, by the same people who make the same bluddy points all the damn time, where can you talk about? Is there a need to shit stir?

[The Lillster]

How much of that shovelware is 3rd party?

Btw when you say Nintendo shovelware, do you mean Wii Fit and Wii Play. Wii Play I could agree with, but that's just a tech demo, showing of fancy things the wii remote can do.

I say the best thing Nintendo could do is raise the price of Wii devkits, and any licencing fees.

[Teppo Holmqvist]

This is the Wii forum, and we can't talk about the Wii without it getting put down all the fucking time, by the same people who make the same bluddy points all the damn time, where can you talk about? Is there a need to shit stir?

Best strategy would be simply start to ban people. Harsh, but effective. As we can't have our discussion in peace, I don't really see reason why Caris and comp should be allowed to use forums either. Hell, it is probably only way to salvage this place. Some solid bans, and total re-boot of the forums. No need to complain, as using N-Europe isn't civil right.

[The Lillster]

Jesus fucking christ, will you just leave it alone?

This is the Wii forum, and we can't talk about the Wii without it getting put down all the fucking time, by the same people who make the same bluddy points all the damn time, where can you talk about? Is there a need to shit stir?

I think the problem is (and i'm not trying to stick up for these negative nina's), over time, these people have lost interest in the Wii and whenever they did hear anything about the Wii it was always negative.

So now, any news on the Wii has to be negative.

And that's why they can't help trolling the Wii boards.

Because apparantly, according to them, it's a disgrace. :nono:

If this keeps happening though, I suggest an admin ban them from posting in any discussion in the Wii section.

This can be done right, I remember a guy being banned from posting in a certain topic before, but I don't know about the actual forum, or whatever you want to call it.

Best strategy would be simply start to ban people. Harsh, but effective. As we can't have our discussion in peace, I don't really see reason why Caris and comp should be allowed to use forums either. Hell, it is probably only way to salvage this place. Some solid bans, and total re-boot of the forums.

Only the Wii section needs revamping.

[Teppo Holmqvist]

Only the Wii section needs revamping.

It would be only curing of symptoms instead of removing the cause.

[Fierce_LiNk]

I think the problem is (and i'm not trying to stick up for these negative nina's), over time, these people have lost interest in the Wii and whenever they did here anything about the Wii it was always negative.

So now, any news on the Wii has to be negative.

And that's why they can't help trolling the Wii boards.

Because apparantly, according to them, it's a disgrace. :nono:

If this keeps happening though, I suggest an admin ban them from posting in any discussion in the Wii section.

This can be done right, I remember a guy being banned from posting in a certain topic before, but I don't know about the actual forum, or whatever you want to call it.

If they've lost interest in the Wii, then we're not saying they are wrong for having feelings such as that. Whether someone is pro-Wii, or Anti-Wii/Nintendo, that is not the issue.

The issue here is that our forum is being ruined by others visiting this board and not allowing the positive discussions to take place. Why can't we talk about the merits of the Wii? Why does everything about the Wii have to be how bad it is, or how its not for them, or how they don't like its aimed at others, or casuals, or hardcores?

Whether bans are harsh or not, that is something that the mods and admins have to decide. But, where are they? This has been going on for some time now and absolutely nothing has been done about it, and I know for a fact that others are fed up with what has been going on, and I am also fed up with how things have panned out. Why should we feel bad about being Wii owners on a Nintendo site?

[Teppo Holmqvist]

But, where are they? This has been going on for some time now and absolutely nothing has been done about it, and I know for a fact that others are fed up with what has been going on, and I am also fed up with how things have panned out.

This has continued for two years, actually. But why moderators don't do anything? There is very simple reason that no-one wants to admit. Majority of our moderators are friends with our problem childs, and you don't say no to your friends. You really can't except moderation to work in this kind of enviroment. It doesn't help either that moderation has completely forgotten what N in this site's name stands for, and that this site has financial responsibilities, meaning that it can't just cater their pals.

[The Lillster]

If they've lost interest in the Wii, then we're not saying they are wrong for having feelings such as that. Whether someone is pro-Wii, or Anti-Wii/Nintendo, that is not the issue.

The issue here is that our forum is being ruined by others visiting this board and not allowing the positive discussions to take place. Why can't we talk about the merits of the Wii? Why does everything about the Wii have to be how bad it is, or how its not for them, or how they don't like its aimed at others, or casuals, or hardcores?

Whether bans are harsh or not, that is something that the mods and admins have to decide. But, where are they? This has been going on for some time now and absolutely nothing has been done about it, and I know for a fact that others are fed up with what has been going on, and I am also fed up with how things have panned out. Why should we feel bad about being Wii owners on a Nintendo site?


Well if they were only banned from the Wii section (which they don't like anyway) then it's for the best. For them because they don't need to waste their time to tell us how bad the Wii is and good for us because we can disscuss more important matters at hand, aka how great the Wii is. :wink:

[Pit-Jr]

Way to stay on topic guys!

[Tellyn]

Way to stay on topic guys!

This is what the forum has turned into, everything has to turn into 'esteemed' members coming in here, declaring their opinion to be gospel and repeatedly telling us how bad the Wii is and why it doesn't satisfy their needs.

[Shino]

The shovelware is hardly Nintendo's fault. Nintendo's casual games at least have a high standard in production and quality.

About what Miyamoto said, from what I perceived, he and the developers at Nintendo felt they had no input in much of the creative process of their games because they were pressed into following a business model base on the competitors. For them that was frustrating because they were one more in the crowd instead of having the creative freedom to develop different stuff like they do now that stands out in the mainstream media, much like what happened during NES and SNES days.

[Stealthttd]

<sarcasm> I love Nintendo they do no wrong. Nintendo is god... anywho says different should be have the banhammer used on them WAM!! </sarcasm>

Now that everyone is happy :p

Really negative feed back about nintendo is a good thing.. a great thing even.. If a rep from nintendo ever came on these forms atm and they read that everyone was happy with them i would cry prob.

I mean did u hear your selves last week when capcom said resident evil fans would be happy.... what was everyone hoping for?? the most they were hoping for is a remake of a game and everyone didnt think that making a new resident evil was even in the cards. When wii has half of the console user base and is hoping for a remake of a game and that would be a huge plus that is sad times.

for the first few years of wii dev.. 3rd partys have thought of wii as an after thought.. sometimes i feel they just put out stuff so they can make money to spend on hd games. and body here who is fighing about how no one should be sad about there wii atm need to get there head out of the sand really. such fanboyism..

[darksnowman]

Yeah keep it on topic guys. It doesn't have to be all peace and love (though that would be nice :heh:) but surely any non-positive opinions people have can be discussed rather than argued...?

[darkjak]

I say the best thing Nintendo could do is raise the price of Wii devkits, and any licencing fees.
Actually, no.
What they should do is to reintroduce the Nintendo Seal of Quality, with much higher requirements.
That a studio has little cash has little to do with the quality of the games they release.

I also think it's sad that you want to ban people for expressing oppinions. I see the problems with the Wii software, and I want to have a propper discussion about what should be done and what I disslike. The main problem is that the moderators keep shutting down threads especially created for "whining", which only makes the debate migrate to another thread.

Just because you love Nintendo, you don't have to accept and like every decision they make.

[Shino]

<sarcasm> I love Nintendo they do no wrong. Nintendo is god... anywho says different should be have the banhammer used on them WAM!! </sarcasm>

Now that everyone is happy :p

Really negative feed back about nintendo is a good thing.. a great thing even.. If a rep from nintendo ever came on these forms atm and they read that everyone was happy with them i would cry prob.

I mean did u hear your selves last week when capcom said resident evil fans would be happy.... what was everyone hoping for?? the most they were hoping for is a remake of a game and everyone didnt think that making a new resident evil was even in the cards. When wii has half of the console user base and is hoping for a remake of a game and that would be a huge plus that is sad times.

for the first few years of wii dev.. 3rd partys have thought of wii as an after thought.. sometimes i feel they just put out stuff so they can make money to spend on hd games. and body here who is fighing about how no one should be sad about there wii atm need to get there head out of the sand really. such fanboyism..

How's that Nintendo's fault? We're here because we love Nintendo games not Capcom. Sad, yes, but I can still play my Mario, Zelda, Metroid, Smash, etc... and that's what matters to most of us.

[Pit-Jr]

Fair enough Shino! But consider Nintendo's offerings on the GC

Luigi's Mansion
Wind Waker
Pikmin
Mario Sunshine
Eternal Darkness
Odama
Chibi-Robo
Battalion Wars, etc.
Metroid Prime
Paper Mario TTYD
Donky Konga
etc...the list goes on

How were any of those games similar to the competition, or based on their business models?
The only question mark in that list is Eternal Darkness, being the only M-rated title Nintendo published at that time(that i can recall). Surely thats not what he got bent out of shape about. It was a great game!

[King_V]

but surely any non-positive opinions people have can be discussed rather than argued...?

EXACTLY, Mr Bond.

But some people don't get that. Especially the younger, rebellious, more extreme types who secretly enjoy these debates as you can tell by their online time. People like Teppo just get aggressive and aggrivate the situation. And this is what i remember of him ever since I signed up here. He is not a troll, just angry.

[Shino]

Fair enough Shino! But consider Nintendo's offerings on the GC

Luigi's Mansion
Wind Waker
Pikmin
Mario Sunshine
Eternal Darkness
Odama
Chibi-Robo
Battalion Wars, etc.
Metroid Prime
Paper Mario TTYD
Donky Konga
etc...the list goes on

How were any of those games similar to the competition, or based on their business models?
The only question mark in that list is Eternal Darkness, being the only M-rated title Nintendo published at that time(that i can recall). Surely thats not what he got bent out of shape about. It was a great game!

Non of those got mainstream recognition! They're not something that made a cultural impact and appeared on sitcoms and those kind of shows. For the guys that shaped much of the industry that must be frustrating.

Most are those are based on tried formulas and the ones they took more liberty in respect to design are late cube games, they probably did them already knowing of the Wii.

[Emasher]

I don't think the problem is that people are coming in and saying they disagree with what's going on on the Wii, its the fact that people come in here just to praise other consoles and stuff. Obviously we need some negative discussion, there wouldn't be much point in having a forum if everyone agreed. The problem is, we can't discuss positive things anymore without someone coming in and telling us that we should "Buy a real console".

Raising the price of Dev Kits would just hurt the little guys like 2D Boy, ect. Darkjak has the right idea of bringing back the seal of quality, but it would have to be very prominent on the box rather than just a little thing most people don't even notice. I wonder if they could also refuse to license some of the worse games, perhaps set a minimum standard for what is required in a Wii Game.

We really don't know what the next few years are going to be like though, if they're anything like 2007 and early 2008 were...

[Fierce_LiNk]

I don't think the problem is that people are coming in and saying they disagree with what's going on on the Wii, its the fact that people come in here just to praise other consoles and stuff. Obviously we need some negative discussion, there wouldn't be much point in having a forum if everyone agreed. The problem is, we can't discuss positive things anymore without someone coming in and telling us that we should "Buy a real console".

That's pretty much what I'm feeling, so thanks for making that post.

It's just not fair anymore. Are we fanboys for wanting to enjoy the console which we've bought for ourselves? Are you fanboys for buying the console you spent your money on?

I think Wii owners need to be equipped with shields, because we spend a lot of time taking crap of other people. Why are the 360 or PS3 owners allowed to discuss their own choice of consoles freely, but Wii owners aren't?

[Ashley]

This topic (or at least the original topic of Miyamoto's emo days) isn't going anywhere. In fact the train stopped miles ago.

But I promise you this, I will work on this. I'll admit I've let the boards slip into an apathetic shrug of "thats the way it is" but no more. I don't want to see people feeling like the Nintendo section of a Nintendo site is the worst part. I will find ways of ultimately removing those who just come in to cause a fuss and will try and restore some peace to this land. At the end of the day I own a Wii, I enjoy playing on it. I shouldn't have sat idly by and let this place slip.

So off to work tomorrow (figuratively speaking, literally speaking I have a dissertation stuff to do on the 15/03) to try and improve this place. This weird rambling speech like thing aside, topic should be closed. Its a shame so many of these are having to get nipped in the budding conversation but as has been discussed, the same shit is getting thrown around.