Forgiveness

[Jamba]

Lately this has come up several times in different ways, mostly thanks to my brother. He's quite an unhappy person and he holds onto grudges like it's a good thing and vents his anger about almost everyone. In particular, he has decided to hate our cousin's wife entirely based on one ill-advised (and totally in bad taste) joke that she made. Not only does he think that she's an idiot but he actually hates her.

It got me thinking about how we all react to people making mistakes. Some of us perceive mistakes as just that but sometimes we see them as malicious or at least things done, whilst well informed and out of choice. Day to day things can be quite easy to forgive but if they re-occur frequently then they can really start to bug you (classic bad housemate situation for instance). So how do you guys deal with this? Do you forgive easily? How does it make you feel doing it? What kind of things do you forgive and what do yo not?

[nightwolf]

I tend to forgive quite easily, to those I want to give it too, given my past lovelife, there was somebody I forgave quite a few times, when most people would have slammed the door in his face repeatedly.

To everyone else I am not, I can be utterly spiteful and worse than your brother and I have no issue with admitting that. I can make a thousands of mistakes and hope for forgiveness and try to earn it but with everybody else, once chance and that's it.

I think I know the reason behind it and it's not fair to let my past judge those who I know in the present.

[Ashley]

I don't forgive. As a rule of thumb I see no point. I know everyone is flawed and for that I don't care about the small stuff that may bug others. But to get to the level where I don't wish to forgive someone means it is big and theres only a few people that it really applies to and it goes either two ways; complete unforgiveness (i.e. my uncle) or eventually just resulting in apathy (i.e. my sibling).

[Daft]

I'll forgive but I'll remember.

[Jamba]

I'll forgive but I'll remember.

So you'd hold it against someone? That's not exactly forgiving... that's more like not bringing it up.

[nightwolf]

So you'd hold it against someone? That's not exactly forgiving... that's more like not bringing it up.

He might work by ''one time I'll trust you but I'll remember and if you break it again that's it''?

[MoogleViper]

I don't forgive. How can you? Especially as most people aren't even sorry for what they've done.

[Konfucius]

I forgive anyone who honestly asks for it, but I only forgive once or twice at maximum for the same mistake.

[Daft]

So you'd hold it against someone? That's not exactly forgiving... that's more like not bringing it up.

If that person made an honest mistake, fine. I'm cool with that, we're only human.

But, in some cases it would be like Nightwolf said. I'd be wary about trusting that person in the same kind of situation.

Otherwise I'd forgive them to cause the minimal disruption to a problem that has already been caused and then not associate with that person again.

Like JFK said, "Forgive your enemies, but never forget their names.".

It's all cost-benefit analysis.

[Coolness Bears]

I forgive very easily but I'm not like a door mat you can't just walk all over me! :)

I forgive pretty much everything...

Well I have done so far. I don't hold grudges against anyone. That doesn't get me anywhere and I'd be unable to move forward if i did! :D

[Jamba]

Wow, some of you have some pretty discrete answers considering the range of things there are to forgive and the differen type of person you are forgiving (as in your relationship to that person).

If most of you dealt with most things that way then I'm surprised that any of you have any friends!

[Fierce_LiNk]

I'd like to think I'm a forgiving person. But it does depend on what the person has done.

If somebody makes a mistake, and is trying to rectify it, then I'll give them a chance. If they accept they've done wrong, then its ok, but we all make mistakes.

But, I found my ex pretty hard to forgive. I was on the road to it, but she must have done about a dozen or so other things to set us back. I think since then, I've kinda had low expectations of a lot of people, and now just expect pretty much everyone to mess up somewhere along the line anyway. So, I'm not as easily shocked when they come to me saying they've made a mistake. If they truely want forgiveness, then I'd like to let it go. I've made a lot of mistakes too, and I'm trying to work my way through and put everything back in its right place.

[MoogleViper]

Wow, some of you have some pretty discrete answers considering the range of things there are to forgive and the differen type of person you are forgiving (as in your relationship to that person).

If most of you dealt with most things that way then I'm surprised that any of you have any friends!

I bury things deep down. It makes life easier.

After all there's only one person I can trust.

[Aimless]

Life's too hard a journey to be weighed down by such baggage. I'm not saying forgiveness is easy, but if you can't leave things in the past where they belong then you're only making things harder on yourself.

That said, in reality I think some things are simply unforgivable. If someone you know is killed and the person responsible feels no remorse... well, who could sit down with that person and say, "Okay, I can see where you were coming from"? Luckily most people won't encounter such situations, though.

I try to forgive as I'm something of an idealist. However, I do find it hard to forget if someone has repeatedly wronged me. And rightly so, I think: even a rat will be cautious of its food if it shocks them too many times. There can be a thin line between being forgiving and letting yourself be exploited, so I think it's important to keep your eye on where you think it lies.

I prefer to believe in people.

[Daft]

Wow, some of you have some pretty discrete answers considering the range of things there are to forgive and the differen type of person you are forgiving (as in your relationship to that person).

If most of you dealt with most things that way then I'm surprised that any of you have any friends!

I don't. (Well not good friends, I have a crap loads of friends I have superficial banter with.)

Because:

I bury things deep down. It makes life easier.

After all there's only one person I can trust.

[MoogleViper]

That said, in reality I think some things are simply unforgivable. If someone you know is killed and the person responsible feels no remorse... well, who could sit down with that person and say, "Okay, I can see where you were coming from"? Luckily most people won't encounter such situations, though.

If that's the only thing you can't forgive then you are waaaaaay to forgiving.
Or at least in my opinion anyway. (Which is always right.)

[Olympic Gamer]

Only if the apology is decent and genuine.

You know, when the screams of pleasure dont sound artificial.

[nightwolf]

I don't see why I should forgive the people who have wronged me in my life, why I should bury it all under the carpet and say all is forgiven.

Alot of the times I have forgiven and I have moved on and kept that person in my life, whether it be a friend, a boyfriend, an ex, family, even a friend of a friend. But there just comes a point in your life where you just don't need them there to continue on in your life and after forgiving them they repay you by a swift kick in the teeth.

I can understand why people wouldn't want me in their life too, it works both ways, if I make a big mistake, say sorry, get forgiveness and do something else I can see why they'd give me a swift kick out the door!

[Slaggis]

I hold grudges, even if that person doesn't know it I'm loathing them from the inside. I get over it after a while, but it takes time. If they do the sligtest thing to annoy me in the "loathing period" - that's it. They're gone.

Sounds wierd, but it's always worked for me. I can;t be arsed with people that aren't genuinly sorry for what they did.

For more specific things like say someone killing someone without a very good reason, then nothat should never be forgiven.

[My Buttons are Magic!]

i dont trust really as a rule
theres like 2 people int he world atm that i trust :) (my dad n greg..lol)

one of my friends was a total dick a month or so back n it was completly unsensitive things like that that make me wonder why bother trusting if epople will hurt u? (i wasnt close with this friend so it actually surprised me how much he hurt me)..

.. we still hang out but i probably would never trust this person n if he hurt me again that prob would be our friendship ( tho we arent close - we wouldnt hang out./talk if it wasnt for greg..lol.. )

.. he kinda apologised but in some backward way i eneded up apologising to him.. didnt know what teh hell i was on abouts
.. n i dont have many friends cause its hard to trust - due to them doing stupid things..


oooo.. to FINALLY answer your question
i dont forgive - not truley anyway
i just note what happens and if something else happens then BAM.. your definately not firgiven
.. n another thing
i only "forgave" the dudes apology cause if i didnt i prob wouldnt have any friends left

[Jimbob]

Depends on what i had to forgive. A small thing then yes, larger thing then i'd think about it.

[Dan Dare]

Jesus fuck, forum. You all need to chill the fuck out and relax a little. First we have the loneliness thread where you all look like sociopathic mentalists, now you all look like bitter misanthropes and enraged hermits.

relax you bellends!

[Raining_again]

Jesus fuck, forum. You all need to chill the fuck out and relax a little. First we have the loneliness thread where you all look like sociopathic mentalists, now you all look like bitter misanthropes and enraged hermits.

relax you bellends!

Couldn't have said it better. :bowdown:

Everyone is so depressed these days...

[Aimless]

To be fair, I'm lonely yet forgiving. Can we at least get away with being one?

[Oxigen_Waste]

I couldn't care less. You cheat on me or doublecross me? It doesn't change why I like you, only how much you like me, so I don't really care.

[My Buttons are Magic!]

some of us have reasons to be a lil wary of trusting/ forgiving people

[Dan Dare]

I've never been betrayed or double crossed in my life. Do you lot live in some kind of rage soaked episode of Dawson's Creek? I take the remarkable step of hanging out with nice, trust worthy people. Hell, I barely give a shit about people's private business and never gossip. Maybe that just puts me in a more relaxed state of mind than you lot.

[My Buttons are Magic!]

I've never been betrayed or double crossed in my life. Do you lot live in some kind of rage soaked episode of Dawson's Creek? I take the remarkable step of hanging out with nice, trust worthy people. Hell, I barely give a shit about people's private business and never gossip. Maybe that just puts me in a more relaxed state of mind than you lot.

tbh i thot the dick that was a dick was a nice person - meh guess again
but the 2 people that matter to be in the world are nice people so thats all that matters :) im working on the whole "stop caring what poeple thing of you" - but im so eager to please n i want everything to be "perfect" when it rarely is :)

[Daft]

I've never been betrayed or double crossed in my life. Do you lot live in some kind of rage soaked episode of Dawson's Creek?

Na, I live in an episode of Smallville. If I tell anyone my secrets it could be the end of the world...plus I have super powers this way.

[uəʌəsʎɐɾ]

As someone almost said, and someone else probably did say[i] but I was too lazy to read all of the above; I only forgive if they are truly sorry. It's the [i]principle that matters most.

[tapedeck]

I forgive because it's in the bible.

In all seriousness though (really), I forgive pretty much everything. Purely because I'm more bothered about appearing to be the nice guy and I'm too busy doing my own thing all of the time.
I also think I'm too busy skimming the surfaces of social puddles (often and quickly) that it's easier not to hold grudges.

I always thought that it depended on how "close" you are to people as to how much you give a damn about things like forgiveness.

And if you give a damn about someone - you generally hold grudges/expect forgiveness from them. Perhaps then it's better to only give a damn about your own wellbeing, inside.

[The fish]

Not forgiving someone (unless it's something very despicable) is an ill-advised thing to do - you end up just hating them out of tradition.

Forgive? Yes.
Forget? Never.

[tapedeck]

I always remember someone saying this to me...

If someone hurts you once it's their fault. If someone hurts you twice, it's your fault.

Always thought it was pretty decent to remember.

[Brian Mcoy]

Mcoy never forgives, Mcoy never forgets.

[somme]

Well it completely depends on what it is the person whom I'm meant to forgive has done.

[Supergrunch]

I forgive pretty much everybody... I currently hold no grudges at all - at least, none I can think of.

Hmm, not sure if that's a good thing or not.

[Aimless]

Damn, there goes my terrible 'Supergrudge' pun. Disappointing.

[Iun]

One chance and one chance only. Lose trust with me, and it's gone forever.

The good are innocent: they gave us justice.

The wicked are guilty: they gave us mercy.

[Strider]

I'd say i sometimes forgive quickly depending on my scale of how bad the thing was. I let most things slide fairly easy, although there are a few things which make me think twice.

When i got a kick in the teeth from Moogle (which was an 'accident') i forgave him fairly soon after (well it took me a day or so to get rid of the urge to punch him, but thats not the same thing)

However since my brother went to Uni, i've found it alot harder to forgive him for the things he does since meeting his girlfriend. She's a spoilt, sly prick. She's one of those people who'd demand an apology for the tiniest thing and nothing can be her fault. These 'qualities' of hers must have rubbed off on my bro since he's started stealing my stuff and then lying about ever seeing it. The first few times i didn't really mind but now i can't stand it, this leads to me finding it really hard to forgive him. It also leads me to hate his girlfriend (even more than i do).

So yeah, depending on the situation i'd forgive fairly easily.

[EEVILMURRAY]

Not forgiving someone (unless it's something very despicable) is an ill-advised thing to do - you end up just hating them out of tradition.

Forgive? Yes.
Forget? Never.
But if you don't forget you haven't really forgiven them.
So you'd hold it against someone? That's not exactly forgiving... that's more like not bringing it up.

However I have the same opinion as Fish. Except I remember to an even sexier degree. Like how can I remix it to my advantage in future.

[Olympic Gamer]

Mcoy never forgives, Mcoy never forgets.

Mcoy is anonymous? What a twist.

[nightwolf]

I've never been betrayed or double crossed in my life. Do you lot live in some kind of rage soaked episode of Dawson's Creek? I take the remarkable step of hanging out with nice, trust worthy people. Hell, I barely give a shit about people's private business and never gossip. Maybe that just puts me in a more relaxed state of mind than you lot.

Just because some of us don't forgive very easily doesn't mean that alot of us don't have very good friends.

I wouldn't honestly change my friends for the world now and if something went wrong and I couldn't forgive them I wouldn't sit in the dark for the rest of my life crying about it.

As the old saying goes ''shit happens'', its just people deal with it differently to others! :)

[EEVILMURRAY]

if something went wrong and I couldn't forgive them I wouldn't sit in the dark for the rest of my life crying about it.
Such as...

[nightwolf]

Such as...

You want me to give a real reason I've not forgiven somebody?

Take my old college class, I was as nice person to one girl, always helped her if she needed it etc and I would say we were best friends, then another girl moved into the class, everything was ok for a while and then a hiccup occured with somebody else, she effectively pushed me away which at the time was abit upsetting but nothing major and then when everything was going ok she proceed to tell me that I was a bitch and didn't deserve to be in the course, nor her friend.

I moved classes shortly after, losing nearly two stone in weight from wanting to be able to be her friend and not knowing what I'd done to upset her. This was during christmas.

Should I have forgiven her? Possibly, but I didn't. Maybe I should now, but they'd be no use considering I haven't seen her and don't wish to know somebody like that.

ps. I was skimming on the details of all this, obviously :)

[EEVILMURRAY]

I moved classes shortly after, losing nearly two stone in weight from wanting to be able to be her friend and not knowing what I'd done to upset her.
This was from sitting in the dark and crying I assume.

But it wasn't for the rest of your life.

WHY DO YOU BRING THESE FOUL LIES TO THE FORUM.... I'm not sure I can forgive you for this. :blank:

[nightwolf]

This was from sitting in the dark and crying I assume.

But it wasn't for the rest of your life.

WHY DO YOU BRING THESE FOUL LIES TO THE FORUM.... I'm not sure I can forgive you for this. :blank:

I lost alot weight, but I didn't cry about it, I got on with it, although I was very confused considering, I mean what exactly do you do when your friend suddenly decides to not be your friend? so I asked to move classes and started again.

I lost weight because when I go under stress I don't eat ^_^, and no course it wasn't for the rest of my life, but that wasn't the question was it? The question was an example of a time I haven't forgiven somebody and that was one of them. :blank:


Not to mention I'm only 18, so how you could consider it the rest of my life just yet, well there's no point ^_^!

unless you're out to get me!...

[EEVILMURRAY]

no course it wasn't for the rest of my life, but that wasn't the question was it? The question was an example of a time I haven't forgiven somebody and that was one of them. :blank:
I know that wasn't the question, as it was a statement you said earlier:

Couldn't forgive a friend = cry in the dark for entire life.

Not to mention I'm only 18, so how you could consider it the rest of my life just yet, well there's no point ^_^!
Well in the immortal scheme of things, who can say how long people will live.
unless you're out to get me!...
Not yet, I've still got to flog Curse of Monkey Island to you. :yay:

[nightwolf]

Should I have forgiven her? Possibly, but I didn't. Maybe I should now, but they'd be no use considering I haven't seen her and don't wish to know somebody like that.



I'll quote myself on this one, because it makes it easier for me ^_^, basically I meant that maybe if she was still in my life that I possibly would, although having somebody like that in your life is quite hmm well you become cautious even if you do forgive.

I haven't been able to talk to her for a long time, so it gets to a point where you haven't forgiven because you've not had the chance too.

I think at the end of the day I made the right choice to move classes and to get on with life and not see her. I suppose if I hadn't moved classes I would have had to be forgiving otherwise I would have been a very lonely person, but it doesn't seem right to be forced into giving somebody forgiveness. :blush:

It's a bit confusing all this forgiving lark, I should have really put on my very first post on this subject that really it was about circumstance, some you can forgive, whilst others you can't, depending on what you view it as.

[EEVILMURRAY]

Maybe you should you say. BUT YOU HAVEN'T HAVE YOU O_O


TO THE CORNER WITH YOU.

:D

[nightwolf]

Maybe you should you say. BUT YOU HAVEN'T HAVE YOU O_O


TO THE CORNER WITH YOU.

:D

You nasty man

*walks to corner and cries*

No forgiving evil! :heh:

[Eenuh]

I think I can forgive people, though of course it would depend on what they did. I've never had anything too bad done to me, so I'm not sure yet what I would do if someone for example cheated on me. I'm not sure I could forgive that...

But so far I think I've forgiven people for things they've done. I don't really hold any grudges; the only thing is someone broke my trust once and that has never fully recovered I think, even though I forgave them.

So I guess like some others, I forgive but I don't always forget (which by the way is not the same as holding grudges or not really forgiving them).

[Jamba]

I think I can forgive people, though of course it would depend on what they did. I've never had anything too bad done to me, so I'm not sure yet what I would do if someone for example cheated on me. I'm not sure I could forgive that...

But so far I think I've forgiven people for things they've done. I don't really hold any grudges; the only thing is someone broke my trust once and that has never fully recovered I think, even though I forgave them.

So I guess like some others, I forgive but I don't always forget (which by the way is not the same as holding grudges or not really forgiving them).

If someone makes a mistake or betrays you then your knowledge and understanding of that person is changed. The picture of who they are is drawn in in more detail and so I think that you have to re-access how you feel towards them.

It's like having a dog that has bitten you once. You know that you're 90% sure that they won't bite you again but there's still that feeling of risk, that small chance which leaves you a bit unsure. I don't like that feeling and after a time I have to let go. It tires me out all that grey area stuff.


On a seperate note, I'm quite worried about how personally everyone takes things that happen to them here. It doesn't even seem like most of the betrayals that people are talking about have even been examined properly. I wonder if those people consider how the other person feels? Why they came to doing what they did or even if they meant to do it.

Take 'wolf for instance. I know you summarised but did you ever really think about why your friend pushed you away? Would you have felt the same way if you were given the information that she had at the time? Was she a different person in reality to the one in your mind?

[MoogleViper]

When i got a kick in the teeth from Moogle (which was an 'accident') i forgave him fairly soon after (well it took me a day or so to get rid of the urge to punch him, but thats not the same thing)

You punched me in the balls twice and threw my bag in the bin.

[Jav_NE]

Women dont forgive. They say they do but they just hold on to it until you've forgotten, then they'll dish it out in a future argument to discredit you. I know their game! Unfortunately there's nothing we can do about it, they have the memory of elephants!

[Strider]

You punched me in the balls twice and threw my bag in the bin.

And then i forgave you :)

[nightwolf]

Take 'wolf for instance. I know you summarised but did you ever really think about why your friend pushed you away? Would you have felt the same way if you were given the information that she had at the time? Was she a different person in reality to the one in your mind?

As I said we drifted apart, but for some reason as things were getting back on track, then she pushed me away, I could possibly have understood if it was while we were drifting through neithers fault, although there was still no need for it. Which is why it left me so confused :blank:

I didn't have a different person in my head, at the end of the day she was my friend whether we talked every day or every month, and I was as nice as I could be to her. She was a generally nice person and was nice to hang out with.

Just a shame she decided to be a bitch right at the end ^_^.

ps. and no I wouldn't have pushed her away if it was the other way round, there was no need to, it sounds easy to say, but to me there wasn't anything until she mentioned it that day!

[Jamba]

Yeah but people do things for reasons. From the sounds of it she had been talking to someone else about you, that's what suddenly sparked the change.

[nightwolf]

Yeah but people do things for reasons. From the sounds of it she had been talking to someone else about you, that's what suddenly sparked the change.

Possibly, I miss her alot, just as I do with other friends that people have told me that I shouldn't miss because of the way they acted.

But it's happened now and I have new friends, she at least made my first year of college pleasant, something to remember. So I don't hate her, I used to, alot, but now it's just something that's happened.

[Jamba]

But it's happened now and I have new friends, she at least made my first year of college pleasant, something to remember. So I don't hate her, I used to, alot, but now it's just something that's happened.

Ah so I guess you have forgiven her in the end... sad story 'wolf. :hmm:

I had a guy at school who was fun to be around and someone who was very stimulating as a personality (my favourite kind of people) but he would fuck up a lot and do really bad things every now and again. I would be good friends with him for a year and then stay away form him for a year and back and forth.

In our last days at school together he did something really bad at my 18th bday and he wasn't even very sorry about it. Later he realised how sorry he was and I did forgive him eventually but this just tipped the balance. I realised that he did do bad things on a regular basis and although he's not a bad guy I just didn't want to be friends with him. I couldn't.

It was a matter of self preservation and damage limitation. I don't want someone that distructive in my life, no matter how much good they bring.

[Raining_again]

Ah so I guess you have forgiven her in the end... sad story 'wolf. :hmm:

I had a guy at school who was fun to be around and someone who was very stimulating as a personality (my favourite kind of people) but he would fuck up a lot and do really bad things every now and again. I would be good friends with him for a year and then stay away form him for a year and back and forth.

In our last days at school together he did something really bad at my 18th bday and he wasn't even very sorry about it. Later he realised how sorry he was and I did forgive him eventually but this just tipped the balance. I realised that he did do bad things on a regular basis and although he's not a bad guy I just didn't want to be friends with him. I couldn't.

It was a matter of self preservation and damage limitation. I don't want someone that distructive in my life, no matter how much good they bring.

I knew someone like that and our friendship kinda dissolved by itself. Sad but then people like that do tend to bring destruction into yer life. :(

[nightwolf]

The things people do eh? Ah Jamba! Nobody should ruin a birthday!

My story isn't that sad, people have endured worse.

[Jamba]

The things people do eh? Ah Jamba! Nobody should ruin a birthday!

My story isn't that sad, people have endured worse.

Nah he didn't ruin it, we kind of found out afterwards but still the memory is attached and every time I see him in the photos of that night I do secretly wish that I could PK Fire his ass into charcoal from a distance. But yeah, that's me kinda hating him back then not hating him now. Does that make any sense?

Also, glad to see that this discussion has fleshed out :yay: . I was worried by the first page that there wasn't going to be much of a discussion just very , very condensed opinions being thrown around.

[nightwolf]

Nah he didn't ruin it, we kind of found out afterwards but still the memory is attached and every time I see him in the photos of that night I do secretly wish that I could PK Fire his ass into charcoal from a distance. But yeah, that's me kinda hating him back then not hating him now. Does that make any sense?

Also, glad to see that this discussion has fleshed out :yay: . I was worried by the first page that there wasn't going to be much of a discussion just very , very condensed opinions being thrown around.

Haha the problem is with myself that I find myself very easily swayed by people's opinions, so in the matter of a day I could infact grab somebody elses opinion instead of my own.

I don't actually do it on purpose, these things tend to happen, which is why each time I've wrote something recently on n-e I've looked at it about four times and re-wrote it at least twice. :heh:

[Aimless]

If someone makes a mistake or betrays you then your knowledge and understanding of that person is changed. The picture of who they are is drawn in in more detail and so I think that you have to re-access how you feel towards them.

It's like having a dog that has bitten you once. You know that you're 90% sure that they won't bite you again but there's still that feeling of risk, that small chance which leaves you a bit unsure. I don't like that feeling and after a time I have to let go. It tires me out all that grey area stuff.
So are you saying that you try to forget as well as forgive?

Mistakes and betrayal are like anything else, a way of learning more about someone — including yourself. I won't forget when someone has wronged me in a meaningful manner as their actions paint who they are, tell me more about the person I'm interacting with. But remembering something and holding it against someone are, as Eenuh said, different things. I'll try to give an example.

In secondary school I was a rather decent 100m sprinter. I could quite regularly come first in my year, and I think I might have set a new school record at one point. Anyway, I was a pretty good at it.

One day I came across a friend that I'd known for about 10 years standing in the empty playground with one other boy. I said hi, we shared pleasantries, and then he asked me to sprint to the other end of playground. I didn't see why he wanted me to do that, but I shrugged and did as he asked; we were pre-school friends, after all. Of course when I got back to them they were both laughing at me, commenting on how stupid I looked when I ran. Should have seen that one coming, huh?

Needless to say at the time what my friend did was a bit of a crushing blow. In fact I still feel uncomfortable if I run. I used to sprint everywhere, but now I'm much more restrained; a brisk walk is about as far as I'll go.

Of course I remember, and I still think it was a really crappy thing to do, but I forgave that person a long time ago. He isn't my friend any more, but that was his choice; indeed he took the piss out of me to impress the new crowd he wanted to hang around with. In school it seems the majority of people are desperate to be popular, so I can see why he did what he did. Besides, I'm sure he didn't realise the lasting effect it would have on me; it was just a joke in his eyes. If a met him today I wouldn't hold that day against him — I doubt he even remembers it — but I can't forget it. It helped make me who I am, for better or worse.

[nightwolf]

Sorry for writing a book. But wondered what people's perspectives on such an event might be. How would you have handled it? It doesn't really matter now and it's all done and dusted. Do you guys have "friends" like this?

I would have handled it the same as you, there's not enough alcohol in the world to make racism funny and if they had laughed whilst I was shouting at them, I probably would have hit them, so you probably handled it better than I would have!

I think that you did what you thought was appropriate at the time as we all would and that the other person was in the right to apologise (the friend of a friend).
:shakehead

[MoogleViper]

See I might make jokes and that and sometimes I'll go too far. If I realise I've done it I'll apologize. But I would never wrong somebody without good reason to. So if somebody does something to me then I'll try to see why they did it. If they didn't mean to hurt me and they are sorry then I will forgive them. But if they don't care that they've hurt me or they had no reason to do so then I can't forgive them.

[Aimless]

But wondered what people's perspectives on such an event might be. How would you have handled it? It doesn't really matter now and it's all done and dusted. Do you guys have "friends" like this?
I think you had to teach that person that their actions have consequences. He wasn't sorry for all the trouble he caused you; he didn't want your forgiveness. That doesn't mean you should hate him forever based on that one night and never give them another chance, but if he doesn't learn from those mistakes then I see no reason to accept him back into your life.

I don't like football so I don't watch it. I've no need of it in my life, but that doesn't mean I despise the sport and want it scoured from the face of the earth, if you see what I'm getting at.

[bluey]

I'm quite an easy-going guy and it takes quite a pretty big thing to get me furious about something. There's some good posts in this thread. Me, I feel that if someone makes a mistake because of poor judgement or just being an idiot at the time, then, providing they're sorry and I suppose to a certain extent can "prove" that they are then it's fine. We all do stupid things at times without thinking and I would never consider myself an exception to that!
i feel pretty much the same ~ but that being said i find it much easier to forgive people who have done me wrong through idiocy or poor judgement than i do to forgive myself for the same kind of mistakes.
it's weird... in most cases i find it easy to forgive, but trusting that person again takes a little time to naturally rebuild itself ~ i think that's just part of the process....but when it's a case of ME fucking up

..oops... sorry... family forum :grin:

when its a case of ME messing up, i find it reasonably easy to trust myself again because i know how bad i feel because of my actions ~ thus i wont be repeating them.. but forgiving myself takes time. especially when i've hurt someone else with my stupidity. :sad:
that being said just because i trust myself doesnt mean i'd expect the person i fucked over to trust me again so readily. that's really presumptuous and unrealistic. time makes change, change takes time etc.

[Raining_again]

i feel pretty much the same ~ but that being said i find it much easier to forgive people who have done me wrong through idiocy or poor judgement than i do to forgive myself for the same kind of mistakes.


I'm with bluey, especially here, its very hard to forgive yourself. Especially when it hurts someone you love. :(

But if you truely love someone, and its not a "crime" that they did with bad intentions (ie was an HONEST mistake) then its easy to forgive. And cheating will NEVER come under this category.

To a point you shouldn't forget, but bringing it up constantly isn't the best way to approach it. Forgive, but if they fuck up again, its over. =)

[Pookiablo]

Aye, forgiving oneself can be very hard to do. I found that when I was in my late teens. Acted like a right little tosser towards my parents at times and looking back on it you do wish you could change it! But such is life!

Saying that it has taught me to behave better and I treat my parents with the upmost respect now (not to say that I didn't have any respect whatsoever before, I suppose I was just rather arrogant!). The good thing about having difficulty forgiving yourself I find is that you usually end up taking more from a bad experience and applying it in future scenarios positively.

Cheers for the feedback on my first post by the way, again it wasn't needed but it's interesting to see what people who don't know you and therefore probably won't just say things to please you, think of your actions!

[Raining_again]

Aye, forgiving oneself can be very hard to do. I found that when I was in my late teens. Acted like a right little tosser towards my parents at times and looking back on it you do wish you could change it! But such is life!

Saying that it has taught me to behave better and I treat my parents with the upmost respect now (not to say that I didn't have any respect whatsoever before, I suppose I was just rather arrogant!). The good thing about having difficulty forgiving yourself I find is that you usually end up taking more from a bad experience and applying it in future scenarios positively.

Cheers for the feedback on my first post by the way, again it wasn't needed but it's interesting to see what people who don't know you and therefore probably won't just say things to please you, think of your actions!

I'm pretty sure every parent goes through it... I appreciate my parents so much cause they stuck by me recently, and when i need them I know they are there =)

[Emasher]

I'll forgive people for small things, but if its something big I may just hold a grudge forever. Especially if the person isn't really that important to me.

[Jamba]

So are you saying that you try to forget as well as forgive?

Mistakes and betrayal are like anything else, a way of learning more about someone — including yourself. I won't forget when someone has wronged me in a meaningful manner as their actions paint who they are, tell me more about the person I'm interacting with. But remembering something and holding it against someone are, as Eenuh said, different things. I'll try to give an example.

I know what you mean and I kind of feel the same way. But I need to be able to forget it to a certain level. I feel emotions very strongly and deeply to the point where I often get totally lost in them. So if someone betrays or wrongs me I find it hard to not be enveloped by it because it's done so it never really goes away. It drives me mental and get's me down and I feel tired cos I'm playing over and over again.

I need to be able to forget it enough to be able to move on and free myself, to heal and to be able to live my life again. I will never completely forget though. As you pointed out, those kind of incidents are corner stones in your life, they define who you are and how you respond to people.

Also, welcome to Pookiablo! Glad to have you aboard. If I was in your shoes, I don't think that I would have been so diplomatic with my "friend". I think the hammer would have come down hard and although I may have come to understand and to some extent forgive him for what he did, it wouldn't stop me thinking that he was a c**k for ever.

[nightwolf]

Funnily enough, the same day I threw them out, Karma did seem to take revenge on them for me - it really did make me believe that such a thing exists. My friend managed to crash his car (no serious injury), get caught speeding at 70mph in a 30mph zone because he didn't realise there were restrictions in place (subsequently losing his licence instantly) and then when he got to the next university he was going to, his car got clamped. Was well chuffed with that result, even if a little mean!

haha, sometimes I've noticed this little thing call karma, whether it be turned towards myself or somebody else.

It makes you wonder if there's any need to forgive somebody when you know something else is going to sort it all out for you, in a way.

[Raining_again]

haha, sometimes I've noticed this little thing call karma, whether it be turned towards myself or somebody else.

It makes you wonder if there's any need to forgive somebody when you know something else is going to sort it all out for you, in a way.

I wish karma would work in my favour. I get nothing but shit upon. I wonder what I did in a past life to have a crippling disease in my teens.

BUT I'm still surviving and I'm relatively happy. Which is probably the most important thing :D

[navarre]

I never forgive.

I wait for my revenge. I postpone- what a month, two months, sometimes a year- and my revenge is done silently- but I do not forgive, and I do not forget.

[Pookiablo]

I never forgive.

I wait for my revenge. I postpone- what a month, two months, sometimes a year- and my revenge is done silently- but I do not forgive, and I do not forget.

Ah man that is sexy. I won't lie, I'm thoroughly aroused by that bold, yet ninja-esque statement!

[bluey]

Ah man that is sexy. I won't lie, I'm thoroughly aroused by that bold, yet ninja-esque statement!
i could have been a ninja... but i couldnt afford the uniform ~ i went to my first ninja lesson in a swimsuit and tights... all the other ninjas laughed at me :sad:

..i could be confusing "ninja" with "ballerina" mind you...

[Jamba]

I never forgive.

I wait for my revenge. I postpone- what a month, two months, sometimes a year- and my revenge is done silently- but I do not forgive, and I do not forget.

Wow... I'd like to see someone know about your revenge actions and still be your friend. That's pretty malicious don't ya think?

[Dazz]

I'll forgive but never forget and I probably won't trust them as much as I used to. It depends whether they did something nasty to me, if it was a petty argument, then I'd forgive and forget. But if it was a major one with hurtful words in, then I will never forget it.

I'd probably accept their apology twice (maximum depending on situations) but the third time, I'd just think they're taking the piss and won't bother.

But I haven't fallen out with anyone so :yay: