Update 3.3 hacked, homebrew alive & kicking again

[mr_bogus]

http://arstechnica.com/journals/thumbs.ars/2008/06/20/new-wii-update-hacked-homebrew-lives-on

Looks like the all that work & testing Nintendo put into 3.3 for the last 3 months did, was made loads more people aware of the homebrew scene :awesome:

[mcj metroid]

generic forum comment: but but homebrew is wrong and illegal. now i need to go off and complain about the lack of wii games because i am so god damn rich.

end of

[Cube]

Wasn't it hacked within 5 minutes?

[mr_bogus]

Wasn't it hacked within 5 minutes?

6-8 hours apparently.

[Dante]

In six hours it was hacked again. (http://www.n-europe.com/forum/showpost.php?p=772287&postcount=37)

[Emasher]

The only problem with the home-brew was that people found out how to get Shot Channel products for free.

But home-brew itself is great. If they just could block the shop channel hack, it could even benefit them as It would mean more people would potentially become an official dev and begin making Wii ware.

Also, on a slightly related subject, does anyone here know how hard it is to port a flash game to the Wii?

[mr_bogus]

Also, on a slightly related subject, does anyone here know how hard it is to port a flash game to the Wii?

Apart from sticking it on a webpage & running it through the internet channel, i'd imagine it would mostly mean using a flash playing library. Lots of games use flash for menus etc these days.

[Hellfire]

The only problem with the home-brew was that people found out how to get Shot Channel products for free.

But home-brew itself is great. If they just could block the shop channel hack, it could even benefit them as It would mean more people would potentially become an official dev and begin making Wii ware.

Also, on a slightly related subject, does anyone here know how hard it is to port a flash game to the Wii?

It's not that simple, I am not aware of a shop channel hack, I think that was misinterpretation, people simply got their games through their pc's normally like you get a pirated game and put it on the Wii. Even if that was not the case, such specific things aren't easy to take care of.
Now, it's obvious that not only are these solutions by Nintendo not very effective and elegant, but they're also avoiding bricking Wiis, which is what Microsoft did, so we won't see an end to this, regardless, both the pirate and homebrew community are relentless.
Also, there are process using loaders without the TP hack they just don't work as well, TP save was the first being hacked because it was the first pirated tried, so if there is a pattern that allows all or many saves to be hacked, Nintendo can block them instead of just going after one save, if there isn't a pattern... well, it doesn't really matter cause the hackers would need to hack dozens or hundreds of saves anyway.

[zwarrior]

lol poor Ninty :D

[Olympic Gamer]

Surely the username Mr.Bogus isnt very suitable for reporting news?

Hopefully this'l crack the Freeloader lock.

[Shino]

Surely the username Mr.Bogus isnt very suitable for reporting news?

Hopefully this'l crack the Freeloader lock.

It doesn't. Your safest bet would be do the twilight hack, install the homebrew channel and use the Gecko region free, since the hacker community will always be above Nintendo.

[mcj metroid]

what's the situation for playing "backed up" games on your wii.does twilight hack allow this or is a mod chip required?

[Hellfire]

The situation is that we can't talk about it.
Kinda like the fight club.

[Dyson]

Kay, I'm going down the homebrew route on my Wii now as well as my DS.

[david.dakota]

Nintendo not very effective and elegant, but they're also avoiding bricking Wiis, which is what Microsoft did

If the homebrew community are continually hacking these updates, its only a matter of time until Execs sanction the use of Wii-breaking firmware. There are terms and conditions to using your Wii- including adhering to region locks, only using Nintendo licensed hardware and software. Nintendo is one of the most protective companies i can think of, there is simply no way they're going to leave Wii open to potential revenue loss.

[DCK]

I am of the opinion that, when you pay 250 euros for your Wii, you can do whatever the fuck you want with it. Nintendo can't force you Terms Of Use to only have Nintendo licensed stuff running on it. This homebrew community isn't violating any copyright, so they should be free to do whatever they want. Nintendo are free to try to stop them, but bricking their Wiis goes too far.

[Hellfire]

If the homebrew community are continually hacking these updates, its only a matter of time until Execs sanction the use of Wii-breaking firmware. There are terms and conditions to using your Wii- including adhering to region locks, only using Nintendo licensed hardware and software. Nintendo is one of the most protective companies i can think of, there is simply no way they're going to leave Wii open to potential revenue loss.
They already did, if they wanted they probably could have already bricked a load of Wiis.

I am of the opinion that, when you pay 250 euros for your Wii, you can do whatever the fuck you want with it. Nintendo can't force you Terms Of Use to only have Nintendo licensed stuff running on it. This homebrew community isn't violating any copyright, so they should be free to do whatever they want. Nintendo are free to try to stop them, but bricking their Wiis goes too far.

Your opinion is wrong lol. You can't play pirated games on a PC just because you spent 1000€ on it. Homebrew itself isn't illegal (although it's sketchy), but you HAVE TO ABIDE BY THE LAW, so they can do whatever they want with their consoles and the services they provide, because they've stipulated limits. Let's face it, 99,9% of the people who use homebrew do it to do illegal things.
Freeloader isn't licensed and it isn't illegal, but Nintendo doesn't have to support it and can choose to stop it.

[scubahood]

I would really reccommend getting into the wii homebrew there are some excellent things out and about. I have a fantastic homebrew app which allows me to load games off of an sd card so no need to waste space on the wii.

[Hellfire]

Scuba, you can't talk about those things, please edit your post.

[DCK]

You can't play pirated games on a PC just because you spent 1000€ on it. Homebrew itself isn't illegal (although it's sketchy), but you HAVE TO ABIDE BY THE LAW, so they can do whatever they want with their consoles and the services they provide, because they've stipulated limits. Let's face it, 99,9% of the people who use homebrew do it to do illegal things.
Freeloader isn't licensed and it isn't illegal, but Nintendo doesn't have to support it and can choose to stop it.Read my post again, I didn't promote piracy - I specifically mentioned nobody was violating any copyright. If you want to run your software on your Wii, then Nintendo shouldn't create anything that breaks your Wii when you do so. They're free to restrict it however they can, but homebrew is not illegal per se. I don't see why I would pay 250 euros and not get to do whatever I legally can with it.

FYI, most people into homebrew do it for fun, to develop Wii software they'd otherwise have to pay thousands of dollars for. There's too much piracy involved, yeah.

[Hellfire]

Fact is, the means through which homebrew runs is in violation of their terms and conditions, so it's their legal right to take action against it. You say homebrew is legal, so you should be able to do it without fear, however, knowing what homebrew leads to every company takes pre-emptive measures to protect themselves. If they started bricking Wiis, I'm sure you'd see much less messing around, because lots of people would be afraid. Gladly they seem to be actively avoiding bricking Wiis, which is probably why it took them 3 months to "activate" the fix which was already present in some form in the wii shop update.

Although some homebrewers do it for fun, it's a minority and most of the users don't care about anything but emulators and whatnot. "I'm not doing this for the piracy" is just what some people say to themselves to help them sleep better at night. There is a reason why emulators and hacking is more advanced than custom applications that don't have anything to do with illegal activities.
Hacking a Nintendo game save that exploits bugs or holes in Wii's code is in breach of the terms and conditions, you can't just think about copyrights. That's why there are methods to use homebrew that are 100% legal and dont hack or breach anything and Nintendo didn't do a thing about those. Of course, they don't work as well either.

[scubahood]

People bang on about stuff being illegal and how they don't download games but I bet they don't have a problem downloading music? My view on things is if its that easy to get it for free why pay?

[Hellfire]

People bang on about stuff being illegal and how they don't download games but I bet they don't have a problem downloading music? My view on things is if its that easy to get it for free why pay?

That's nice and all but this forum has rules, you wanna talk about it, go to another one.

[Dyson]

I think he was talking about booting games he owned off an SD card anyway. Scuba, could you add me on MSN, I'd like a chat :)

I need to buy an SD card first.

[Hellfire]

I think that "you can own a rom of a game you own" theory is a myth or ancient history.

[Shino]

I think he was talking about booting games he owned off an SD card anyway. Scuba, could you add me on MSN, I'd like a chat :)

I need to buy an SD card first.

Lol, I believe he meant booting WiiWare and VC game directly from the SD cards, instead of changing it back to the Wii memory. Not other kind of games, which I don't think is possible.

[mcj metroid]

I think that "you can own a rom of a game you own" theory is a myth or ancient history.

no it's true hence my use of the word "backup"

I think he was talking about booting games he owned off an SD card anyway. Scuba, could you add me on MSN, I'd like a chat :)

I need to buy an SD card first.

add me too:D

[Hellfire]

wikipedia:
In some countries, it is legal for an individual to personally make backup copies of a game they own. Individuals may make backup copies for various reasons, perhaps as insurance against losing the game or as redundancy in the event that the original game's medium becomes unreadable. See the section on ROMs and Preservation.

However, in the U.S. it has been illegal since 1983 for a user to create their own backups of video game ROMs onto other cartridges. This was decided in the court case of Atari v. JS&A. JS&A manufactured a "game backup" device that allowed users to dump their Atari ROMs onto a blank cartridge. JS&A argued that the archival rule allowed for this. The court disagreed, noting that ROM media was not subject to the same volatility as magnetic media (for which the law was created). Thus, not being so relatively vulnerable, ROMs were not applicable under section 17 USC 117(a)(2).

Some games companies, such as Nintendo, print warnings inside their game manuals that they do not allow users to make backup or archival copies. Whether or not these warnings in this specific form can be considered valid contracts is legally questionable. For an overview of relevant issues, see user agreement (EULA), shrink wrap contract, clickwrap, Fair Use, Fair Dealing and DMCA.

Official Nintendo Website: http://www.nintendo.com/corp/legal.jsp#roms



What is a Nintendo Video Game Emulator?

A Nintendo emulator is a software program that is designed to allow game play on a platform that it was not created for. A Nintendo emulator allows for Nintendo console based or arcade games to be played on unauthorized hardware. The video games are obtained by downloading illegally copied software, i.e. Nintendo ROMs, from Internet distributors. Nintendo ROMs then work with the Nintendo emulator to enable game play on unauthorized hardware such as a personal computer, a modified console, etc.

Can I Download a Nintendo ROM from the Internet if I Already Own the Authentic Game?

There is a good deal of misinformation on the Internet regarding the backup/archival copy exception. It is not a "second copy" rule and is often mistakenly cited for the proposition that if you have one lawful copy of a copyrighted work, you are entitled to have a second copy of the copyrighted work even if that second copy is an infringing copy. The backup/archival copy exception is a very narrow limitation relating to a copy being made by the rightful owner of an authentic game to ensure he or she has one in the event of damage or destruction of the authentic. Therefore, whether you have an authentic game or not, or whether you have possession of a Nintendo ROM for a limited amount of time, i.e. 24 hours, it is illegal to download and play a Nintendo ROM from the Internet.

Like I said, myth and ancient history.

[Dyson]

Lol, I believe he meant booting WiiWare and VC game directly from the SD cards, instead of changing it back to the Wii memory. Not other kind of games, which I don't think is possible.


That's what I meant, I worded it a bit shite, my bad :P

[mcj metroid]

first of all we don't live in the us and second of all. I'm not really going to trust nintendo's advice on that and who says that one isn't based on america either. You could be right, But not based on that information.

[Hellfire]

Look, what you can and cannot do with proprietary software is defined in the EULA (end-user licensing agreement), so when you are buying or using software/hardware you are agreeing to those terms. The terms are imposed by the copyright owner and unless they contradict a law, if you don't abide to them, you're doing something illegal. It's that simple. You can't just say "Hey, I don't trust one of the biggest companies in the world to say what's legal to do with their prodcut", because they are the ones who dictate it. You're not living on the moon, you have to abide by rules, whether you read the terms and conditions or not you agreed to them, if you don't follow them, you don't have any right to moan.
That specific law was a US law, but downloading ROMs is illegal in Europe too.
Now unless you make your own game backup out of a game you own (which you don't, we're talking about ROMs here, meaning cartridges- btw the devices that do this are illegal) there's no beating around the bush.
Not that it matters, people use it regardless, it seems that they just feel safe (and they are:P) telling themselves it's legal and rely on stupid disclaimers that are put on ROM sites since I was a kid that have no legal validity at all (the 24 hour rule never existed).

[mcj metroid]

Section 117 of the U.S.C. Title 17 (Copyright law), states:

Notwithstanding the provisions of section 106, it is not an infringement for the owner of a copy of a computer program to make or authorize the making of another copy or adaptation of that computer program provided:

(1) that such a new copy or adaptation is created as an essential step in the utilization of the computer program in conjunction with a machine and that it is used in no other manner, or
(2) that such new copy or adaptation is for archival purposes only and that all archival copies are destroyed in the event that continued possession of the computer program should cease to be rightful. Any exact copies prepared in accordance with the provisions of this section may be leased, sold, or otherwise transferred, along with the copy from which such copies were prepared, only as part of the lease, sale, or other transfer of all rights in the program. Adaptations so prepared may be transferred only with the authorization of the copyright owner."

Console games/arcade games are classified as computer programs.

So, according to the copyright law, you CAN own a copy of a software program you own(contrary to what Nintendo and the IDSA wants you to believe). But in the case of ROMS, you can't copy them so websites have to distribute them (so ignore in part sub-section 2).