Gamer's Seal of Approval

[LazyBoy]

Alright, rant+idea, get comfortable.

When Good Games go Un-played

This is a disease that all entertainment industries suffer from, good work goes under appreciated. At the moment i'm looking at Prime 3, No More Heroes and Zack and Wiki. Games that far too few people played, it's a crime.

Why? I see two reasons. Either a lack of/bad marketing or an unattractive image.

And it matters. When games don't sell they don't get made. Shenmue 3 will never be seen because the first two didn't sell. That right there is a sad, sad truth.

I don't need to explain this too much, you all know it is a problem.

Is There Something We Can Do?

Maybe. I'll get straight the point. A "Gamer's Seal of Approval". A widespread internet based initiative that awards good games with a certificate of merit. The Gamers themselves (us) decide developers that should be recognised, credited, for their effort in developing games.

Similar to the Nintendo seal of approval, the aim would be two-fold. Firstly an extra marketing initiative that could be utilized by publishers to help sell the game. If they want it they can put it right on the box.

Secondly it would let developers know that their work is being appreciated, that we want them to create more of these games even in they don't sell.

Would it work? Maybe. Is it worth a try? I think so. If there is a chance it would improve the state of the industry, why not.

Interested? It's a Joint Effort

Well yeah, I need your help. If you want to be a part of this, if you think there is a possibility it would work, say so below. We'd need a website, we'd need people. We would need to spread the word. We would need to contact media and developers.

But N-Europe is my base. I need to know there are people here who want this to happen. If there are, please say so, and we can get started.

So, anyone want to try and make a difference?

Edit: If you are interest in helping head over to the NiSuTe forums, sign up (in your signature but "I AM FROM N-EUROPE AND I AM HUMAN" (don't ask)), and head to the anouncements section. There say you want in and you'll be added into a secure section of the forums for discussion of this. Hope to see you there.

[Marshmellow]

I would definitely be interested...if it supports other games not on the Wii as well. As everyone knows I'm not exactly a huge fan of the Wii, but I would definitely be interested in helping out games that deserve to be recognized!

[sign me up]

[LazyBoy]

Hell yeah, this is a market wide thing. Every console has games that should sell but doesn't, has games that should receive sequels but don't.

When I've got the time i'll PM my e-mail to a couple of people.

[Marshmellow]

Oh nice, well then count me in for sure!

[Ten10]

Sounds interesting so keep me posted.

[Noku]

Me too. Have got exams coming up, but I'd be more than happy to contribute.

[g0recki]

So would the seal be reserved exclusively for superb games that don't get the public interest they deserve, or would it be used as a general mark of approval for excellent games, regardless of how much interest it has drummed up?

Would Super Mario Galaxy get the seal, for instance?

[Deathjam]

Interested but let me play devil's advocate for just a bit. Would it be really worthwhile? A game on the wii for example that does not sell well may have needed that extra marketing, but you have to think of the channels to which you deliver a message. Most people who own a wii would probably not trawl the internet searching for game news, reviews and such. They get their information from the tv most likely and I don't believe that this gamer's seal will reach that far. There are a few other issues on my mind but I wait till i get a response to this one.

[LazyBoy]

So would the seal be reserved exclusively for superb games that don't get the public interest they deserve, or would it be used as a general mark of approval for excellent games, regardless of how much interest it has drummed up?

Would Super Mario Galaxy get the seal, for instance?

This is one of the reasons I want to get a group of people together. Personally I think it should just be games that are predicted to sell badly. Otherwise the seal would become diluted. But then again if people think otherwise than we do so.

Interested but let me play devil's advocate for just a bit. Would it be really worthwhile? A game on the wii for example that does not sell well may have needed that extra marketing, but you have to think of the channels to which you deliver a message. Most people who own a wii would probably not trawl the internet searching for game news, reviews and such. They get their information from the tv most likely and I don't believe that this gamer's seal will reach that far. There are a few other issues on my mind but I wait till i get a response to this one.


The eventual aim (and this is optimistic) would be so it is printed on the front of the box. But ofcourse this would take time. Initially the idea would be to market it virally on the internet, through sites and magazines, and ofcourse to the publishers. If you make it so the community who decides what games receive the award big enough, people will take notice.

[Shino]

Interested but let me play devil's advocate for just a bit. Would it be really worthwhile? A game on the wii for example that does not sell well may have needed that extra marketing, but you have to think of the channels to which you deliver a message. Most people who own a wii would probably not trawl the internet searching for game news, reviews and such. They get their information from the tv most likely and I don't believe that this gamer's seal will reach that far. There are a few other issues on my mind but I wait till i get a response to this one.

The idea would be that a game publisher could stick the seal on the game's cover, much like they do with website review scores.

I'm interested in this, but I have a questions. Would each registered gamer there be able to give its seal of approval? If so, how would numbers count for it?

[LazyBoy]

The idea would be that a game publisher could stick the seal on the game's cover, much like they do with website review scores.

I'm interested in this, but I have a questions. Would each registered gamer there be able to give its seal of approval? If so, how would numbers count for it?

Again, someone may have a better idea, but my idea was such. You'd have the forum of gamers, and any one of them could suggest a game for nomination. If it is fesibile (i.e. not crap or uber-popular) then a thread is made, where debate would take place between anyone who wants to help. People would argue over whether its worthy, if enough effort has been pored into it, if it requires the award, if it fits the criteria etc. The a panel of...say 11 decide based on the points raised whether it should get the award (which I think it would be cool to turn into a podcast as well. This panel would be made of of well-informed, trustworthy, non-bias gamers.

If anyone has a better way, please say.

[triforcemario]

I like this idea. Sign me up.

[Retro_Link]

Sounds like a good idea to me!

[D_prOdigy]

It's a great idea. Providing the initiative can get support from sites and developers, then it can't not do good.

I'm on board!

[Tellyn]

I'm on board. I'm going to speak to Tom (Tphi) about this and see if we can work out an additional site with AMN. I'm also going to get in touch with my developer contacts and rally some support. If we could start seeing this seal on both downloadable and retail games, it would be awesome.

[Zero]

Sounds like a really good idea. I'm all for it. Sign me up.

If it got enough attention and was actually placed on game covers then it would be an easy way to sort through most of the crap games on any console for people who don't search the internet for game revies and such. The idea has merit. It just needs support.

[Shino]

There are several problems that need to be dealt with first. First, its impossible for us to play a game before being printed, then we need a good criteria and define who decides which game gets the seal. And Gamer's Seal of Approval is a bit misleading, I approve of Mario Galaxy, but it sold millions.

Overall I think its a great idea, but more than support, we need to define exactly what it means.

[ShadowV7]

I would say it should be for all the good games, like Galaxy as Shino said, instead of the ones that should sell well, but don't, such as Zack and Wiki and No More Heroes.

Sign me up for it. There needs to be ways to seperate crap from the good games.

[kav82]

Count me in, great idea!

[Fruitgun]

Hehe, y'know recently, I had the same idea!
Although mine sucked in comparison...

So yeah! Count me in too! :D

[NotAshley]

I'm all for it, and so are a few other members of team N-Europe. Look at it this way - Okami didn't sell. That speaks for itself really - I'm on board!

[The fish]

I'm up for it, but with exams, my contribution will be somewhat limited - still, put my name down, biatch!

[Deathborn]

Awesome idea! I'm all for it!

[Emasher]

Good Idea, count me in.

Another prime example is NIGHTS on the Wii, its a great game, but now, not too long after it came out its in bargain bins. While rip offs of technical demos are topping the charts.

[Vicar]

I'm in and I bet Mundi is also in we can cower Iceland.

I hate when games go under the radar Like Beyond good & evil (Fantastic game but I think I'm the only one who played it in my friend group) and also for rogue trooper (Loved it, loved it and I think I'm going to buy it for wii) and of course No more heroes and Zack and Wiki.

The only bad thing about Iceland is every one here is brain washed by Sony even the shops there is only one company who ships in games from Nintendo and that company is doing an ok job but they could be doing better,

I hope this will work in some sort of an way.

[McPhee]

I don't see it catching on. It'll highlight the bad games, causing their sales to drop. Publishers ain't gonna like that at all...

Obviously im quite a cynical person though. I actually do hope it works and i applaud you guys for trying :D Good luck!

[LazyBoy]

Well here is somewhat of a preliminary plan.

1. We need to set up a small website or area where we can discuss (I don't want to be bombing N-Europe)

2. Those here who want to help will verify a plan on those forums

3. We certify the criteria for the award

4. We set a structure. We'll need the members of the board, forums moderators, people to go around forums spreading the word and bringing people in. People to contact media like IGN (some will eat it up I think), people to get in contact with publishers and developers. Spread the word.

5. Insert into our signatures a small thing about the award so people know we listen to it.

6. Begin the process

7.???

8. Profit

So the first thing we need to know is where can we set up camp?

[Marshmellow]

Well you need some members that are good with making a site look attractive, and the site needs to be constantly updated, too many good ideas just dwindle away on the internet from lack of time put into them.

I'll help in anyway possible, but I'm shit when it comes to website design.

[wildo]

Ok dude this is a fantasic idea, I can see this working but it will need a lot of effort and time to be pored into this. I have me quite a few links within the world of gaming (kinda have to if your the PR guy) which will help this cuase out. I shall add you msn and talk over a few things with ya.

[Deathjam]

Didn't expect it to have such a grand scope, but I think it's fantastic if it has such an aim. I think shino brought up the idea of when the seal's would be put on. I mean, if we are to play a game, how do we forecast that it won't sell? Just because it's a certain type of game? And then when do they get put on? Before the games are in the shops? Or afterwards, when the number of their sales are in?
Also, the seal will need an incredible amount of credibilty or backing behind it, before it will get placed on games.

All that said count me in. Got too much time on my hands now.

[LazyBoy]

Didn't expect it to have such a grand scope, but I think it's fantastic if it has such an aim. I think shino brought up the idea of when the seal's would be put on. I mean, if we are to play a game, how do we forecast that it won't sell? Just because it's a certain type of game? And then when do they get put on? Before the games are in the shops? Or afterwards, when the number of their sales are in?
Also, the seal will need an incredible amount of credibilty or backing behind it, before it will get placed on games.

All that said count me in. Got too much time on my hands now.

All these are things that we would have to talk over.

At the moment i'm actually thinking it would be put on every game that qualifies, regardless of sales.

We would give the seal as the games goes Gold. Now the problem is, how do we know it is good? Well one of the most important things isn't how brilliant the game is, but the effort put into it. An original risky 80% game is more worthy than a 90% FPS sequel. An effort is something we can see without playing the game.

Credibility. I reckon if you go around gaming websites, the media, and developers and tell them our cause, they'll want to help. Remember Cassamassinia's (?) pleas for people play Zack and Wiki? Now why wouldn't he want to help for the same reasons.

It can work, but it'll require some effort.

Right now I need to talk to some people who have experience with websites (making for them, paying for them). Please drop me a PM if you don't mind helping.

[Emasher]

Someone should set up and xsorbit forum right away. They are free.

[Charlie]

Someone should set up and xsorbit forum right away. They are free.

They're free for a reason...

Lazyboy, you Sir, have yourself a PM.

[spirited away]

I'm in. It's an issue that we all recognise and it would be good to try and do something about it.

I have a freind that has designed a few websites. He's not a professional or anything but he's been working on photoshop for 3/4 years and gets the odd job.

[The fish]

Once I've finished my exams, I can considerably increase my dedication. This is a very, very good idea.

[Deathjam]

Im more of a person who can think up an escuse for anything, and a problem to go with it. So i think my pessimistic thinking could be handy :D

[Vicar]

Well I can help with getting news I´m always on the hunt for new updates on any gaming website

but I have no skills in making a website plus when (and if) this comes togeather I could send an E-mail to and video game show here on Iceland and ask them to tell people about it, it would probably make people look at the site at least once :P

[Roostophe]

This does sound good. Count me in. : peace:

[Maiky-NiSuTe]

i can give you a closed section on my site's forum. (trust me nisute isnt a thred to n-europe)

[LazyBoy]

Well here's the deal I have very kindly got an offer for us to set up a secure area over at NiSuTe. I'll PM all those who have shown interest so they can get in and we can then start the organization. Thanks again everyone.

Edit: We now have a temporary base set up over at the NiSuTe forums. So as not to mess up the N-Europe space I ask that anyone interested in being part of the project sign up over there and start posting.

[Charlie]

Tried signing up there but get an error... Anyone else getting this error?

General Error

Failed sending email :: PHP ::

DEBUG MODE

Line : 234
File : emailer.php

[Iun]

Signed up, just want to know where to go on Nisute.

[LazyBoy]

Bottom of the forum index, organisation thread, my name is just 'Boy' over there.

Charlie, don't know what to tell you there, keep trying or contact Maiky.

[Roostophe]

I've signed up. Trying to look for the thread thing, though.

[LazyBoy]

Ha sorry about the confusion lads, apparently Maiky had them hidden. PM him telling him you want in and he'll let you.

[Gizmo]

I really don't see this working, at all. Nice idea in theory, a title for lesser known games to be given by the gamers to increase sales and therefore encourage more games like that.

But do you really think that games journalists aren't gamers? Why would anyone be a games journalist if they weren't? Suddenly because they judge games as a career, they can no longer judge games? You think average-joe casual gamer knows/cares wtf happens at Gamespot.com?

And why would a publisher put an acolade from a group of non-professionals on their adverts and boxarts, when they have review scores from people who do it for a living?

This isn't going to help sales of stuff like Zack and Wiki and No More Heroes. Look at how crazy IGN went for Z&W. Games that are good will be praised as good online, the thing is the people who you are targeting for this idea to generate sales for underappreciated games wouldn't know about this/pay attention to it any more than they would a "90% IGN.com!" badge. How will this idea help? It's basically aimed at the same group of games that websites will try and hype, except this is an "amateur" version. If anything, that has less sway with the public.

Also, who decides who decides? Are people going to be elected like a governmental style organisation, with regular elections to change the representatives? If not, will it not surely just become an elitist group decided on their own opinions? Won't this just become an inside group of people who decide on it, with people on the outside laughing at your futile efforts?

And again, why would publishers respect this at all?

Sorry, but this just will not work, and even if it did, wouldn't have any sway at all.

[blender]

how are "gamers" going to agree on anything ?

that is why we have reviews, forums etc.

DOomed

PS I hated the metroid series. it got the sales it deserved

[LazyBoy]

I really don't see this working, at all. Nice idea in theory, a title for lesser known games to be given by the gamers to increase sales and therefore encourage more games like that.

But do you really think that games journalists aren't gamers? Why would anyone be a games journalist if they weren't? Suddenly because they judge games as a career, they can no longer judge games? You think average-joe casual gamer knows/cares wtf happens at Gamespot.com?

And why would a publisher put an acolade from a group of non-professionals on their adverts and boxarts, when they have review scores from people who do it for a living?

This isn't going to help sales of stuff like Zack and Wiki and No More Heroes. Look at how crazy IGN went for Z&W. Games that are good will be praised as good online, the thing is the people who you are targeting for this idea to generate sales for underappreciated games wouldn't know about this/pay attention to it any more than they would a "90% IGN.com!" badge. How will this idea help? It's basically aimed at the same group of games that websites will try and hype, except this is an "amateur" version. If anything, that has less sway with the public.

Also, who decides who decides? Are people going to be elected like a governmental style organisation, with regular elections to change the representatives? If not, will it not surely just become an elitist group decided on their own opinions? Won't this just become an inside group of people who decide on it, with people on the outside laughing at your futile efforts?

And again, why would publishers respect this at all?

Sorry, but this just will not work, and even if it did, wouldn't have any sway at all.

1. The difference between this and a games journalist/reviewer, is its authority. A review of a game is one person, one expert granted, but just one person. This would be the choice of the community itself. It would be a consensus, and it is because it is that it carries more weight.

2. Developers will put it on their boxes, eventually. For the same reason as above. Plus it would be more eye-catching to the mother buying the game for her son. They don't know what an IGN is but a gamer's seal of approval? It's self-explanatory really. And when someone is scared about sales then they'll put it on. And once one person puts it on, everyone will want it.

3. Ask a person in the general public what IGN is - nothing. The seal would be simple to understand for those who see the advert on TV or on a box. It would be universal, so people could become familiar with with.

4. The idea at the moment is too have a board, maybe 6 people who make the final decision. However the bulk of their decision will be made the forum goers, so unless the forum is split down the middle on whether to award it or not, the board really has no power.

5. Publishers don't have to respect it. They need it. If you have a game like NMH, low forcast sales, 80%, then putting the thing on the box will be no big thing. Once one person puts it on, people start looking for it, then the publishers start asking why they haven't got one. When it finally comes to when they do get one in order to not feel left out they put it on. Simple as.

[Gizmo]

1. The difference between this and a games journalist/reviewer, is its authority. A review of a game is one person, one expert granted, but just one person. This would be the choice of the community itself. It would be a consensus, and it is because it is that it carries more weight.

A consensus of who? Any old GameFAQs user who decides to sign up to your message board? Or a stringently maintained "elite" group of people that are chosen to do it themselves? How does a "consensus" make any difference, compared to a group of reviews by professionals? People aren't going to notice that one reviewer gave it a 5 instead of a 9 (see;Gamespot on Lost Winds) because the game makers won't put it on the box (yes Lost Winds is a downloadable game but you get the point) in the same way that the minority disagreeing with giving the award are ignored because you either give it or don't. I don't see what the difference is, other than that the reviewers are professionals who have been given their status due to their expertise in the area, rather than a bunch of random people who have signed up to a message board. You said yourself later in the post, the board effectively has no power. Are you going to go nazi on who you let sign up? Perhaps an IQ test during the sign up process, as well as a "Fanboyism" test, to ensure nobody comes along to diss MGS4 just because its a PS3 exclusive?

2. Developers will put it on their boxes, eventually. For the same reason as above. Plus it would be more eye-catching to the mother buying the game for her son. They don't know what an IGN is but a gamer's seal of approval? It's self-explanatory really. And when someone is scared about sales then they'll put it on. And once one person puts it on, everyone will want it.

They don't know what a "Gamers Seal Of Approval" warrants either. How do they know the process which the game has gone through to get this award rather than any other review score? Are you going to do a nationwide advertising campaign to raise awareness? Because otherwise your point is completely moot.

3. Ask a person in the general public what IGN is - nothing. The seal would be simple to understand for those who see the advert on TV or on a box. It would be universal, so people could become familiar with with.

In the same way that an IGN score is universal? "oh, there was 90% IGN on the front of Zelda, and theres a 90% IGN on the front of this. I liked Zelda, this must be good too".

Conversely if you don't like that argument it works completely against you in the other way. "Gamers seal of approval? Where does this come from?" What makes anybody in the general public think that is any more valuable than an IGN score?

4. The idea at the moment is too have a board, maybe 6 people who make the final decision. However the bulk of their decision will be made the forum goers, so unless the forum is split down the middle on whether to award it or not, the board really has no power.

See point 1. You're either going to have a load of idiots in the voting process, GameFAQs style, or you're going to be completely nazi about it and be a laughing stock for anyone outside the circle. It will be impossible to find a middle ground to that. It will also be completely impossible to avoid fanboyism and people ruining it for the sake of ruining it. This is a 4chan raid waiting to happen - whether its because its so easy to sign up, and they attack from the front, or because it's so difficult and they decide to ruin it out of spite from the back door.

5. Publishers don't have to respect it. They need it. If you have a game like NMH, low forcast sales, 80%, then putting the thing on the box will be no big thing. Once one person puts it on, people start looking for it, then the publishers start asking why they haven't got one. When it finally comes to when they do get one in order to not feel left out they put it on. Simple as.

I don't see you getting to that stage at all. You will be laughed at. You won't get that first person including it. It will not explode onto every second box art like you predict. The publishers will see it and think; how silly. And proceed to continue with their boxart with the high IGN score that the game deserves, which as yet has had little effect on sales. I refer you again to Zack and Wiki, which IGN absolutely went nuts for prior to release. They had a "Buy Zack and Wiki" campaign. Yet the game still did not sell millions. In fact, I just checked my Zack and Wiki box and they haven't even got anything from that IGN campaign on the boxart. Do you not think if that would have had any chance of spurring sales it would have gone on the box? Thinking about it now, that says to me that the publishers don't even particularly see much sway on this thing at all; you're award is even more worthless than that. If Capcom (who published Z&W, correct?) didn't include any info about IGN's campaign, why would they pay attention to your approval?

You just haven't thought this through at all. It will NOT work. If this works, and in the next 5 years this "seal of approval" appears on a boxart, I will personally Paypal you £100. If you went onto Dragons Den with this idea you'd be laughed at and told to go away. (I realise this isn't a profit making idea and that the DD comparison is really quite irrelevant but I think you understand what I mean when I say it).

[LazyBoy]

A consensus of who? Any old GameFAQs user who decides to sign up to your message board? Or a stringently maintained "elite" group of people that are chosen to do it themselves? How does a "consensus" make any difference, compared to a group of reviews by professionals? People aren't going to notice that one reviewer gave it a 5 instead of a 9 (see;Gamespot on Lost Winds) because the game makers won't put it on the box (yes Lost Winds is a downloadable game but you get the point) in the same way that the minority disagreeing with giving the award are ignored because you either give it or don't. I don't see what the difference is, other than that the reviewers are professionals who have been given their status due to their expertise in the area, rather than a bunch of random people who have signed up to a message board. You said yourself later in the post, the board effectively has no power. Are you going to go nazi on who you let sign up? Perhaps an IQ test during the sign up process, as well as a "Fanboyism" test, to ensure nobody comes along to diss MGS4 just because its a PS3 exclusive?



They don't know what a "Gamers Seal Of Approval" warrants either. How do they know the process which the game has gone through to get this award rather than any other review score? Are you going to do a nationwide advertising campaign to raise awareness? Because otherwise your point is completely moot.



In the same way that an IGN score is universal? "oh, there was 90% IGN on the front of Zelda, and theres a 90% IGN on the front of this. I liked Zelda, this must be good too".

Conversely if you don't like that argument it works completely against you in the other way. "Gamers seal of approval? Where does this come from?" What makes anybody in the general public think that is any more valuable than an IGN score?



See point 1. You're either going to have a load of idiots in the voting process, GameFAQs style, or you're going to be completely nazi about it and be a laughing stock for anyone outside the circle. It will be impossible to find a middle ground to that. It will also be completely impossible to avoid fanboyism and people ruining it for the sake of ruining it. This is a 4chan raid waiting to happen - whether its because its so easy to sign up, and they attack from the front, or because it's so difficult and they decide to ruin it out of spite from the back door.



I don't see you getting to that stage at all. You will be laughed at. You won't get that first person including it. It will not explode onto every second box art like you predict. The publishers will see it and think; how silly. And proceed to continue with their boxart with the high IGN score that the game deserves, which as yet has had little effect on sales. I refer you again to Zack and Wiki, which IGN absolutely went nuts for prior to release. They had a "Buy Zack and Wiki" campaign. Yet the game still did not sell millions. In fact, I just checked my Zack and Wiki box and they haven't even got anything from that IGN campaign on the boxart. Do you not think if that would have had any chance of spurring sales it would have gone on the box? Thinking about it now, that says to me that the publishers don't even particularly see much sway on this thing at all; you're award is even more worthless than that. If Capcom (who published Z&W, correct?) didn't include any info about IGN's campaign, why would they pay attention to your approval?

You just haven't thought this through at all. It will NOT work. If this works, and in the next 5 years this "seal of approval" appears on a boxart, I will personally Paypal you £100. If you went onto Dragons Den with this idea you'd be laughed at and told to go away. (I realise this isn't a profit making idea and that the DD comparison is really quite irrelevant but I think you understand what I mean when I say it).

1. Anyone would be allowed to join, but it would be a place for reasoned argument and debate. Comments of fanboyism would be ignored.

2. Gamer's Seal of Approval, not a final name but you get the idea. A mother walking past the box sees this, is she more likely to buy it? I think so.

3. With any percentage score. Casuals aren't going to distinguish between reviewers, they figure they are all the same. This would be simple and straightforward. If it has the seal, it is worth your money.

4. Say you nothing about the Oscars, never heard of it, but you see a movie that won best film. Are you going to question it, or are you going to accept the fact that somewhere this is regarded as best film of the year, and even if you disagree with them it's gotta be worth a watch since someone put their neck on the line to rate this movie.

5. Let them come. We have a cause, they'll be hurdles. At least we're trying.

6. We start with the small developers, the ones that need the help. If they get it included the big guys will look around and ask why they aren't getting it. We plan on building a community of gamers that will write e-mails and articles about how this is important to them, and that they regard the seal a important.

7. I've thought it through plenty. I know there's a chance it might fail, but i'm willing to try. The industry is hurting and I'd rather put my neck out there and give it a chance than me pessimistic and accept it is the way it is, insulting and condescending those who actually want to make a difference. Keep your money.

[Emasher]

To be honest, I like the Idea, but I think you may need to find a better way of making the verdict on weather the game gets the seal or not. There's more than a chance it will fail, but its still worth a try, its not going to cost anyone anything to try, and if it does succeed it could change the industry for the better. But there has to be more concrete criteria for weather a game gets it or not, and the only way this will work is if word gets out there.

The best way to start it would be to contact "hardcore indie" developers and try to persuade them to use the seal, then move on to indie, then onto smaller non-indie and so on. You also need alot of gaming websites to acknowledge the existence of the seal.

[LazyBoy]

To be honest, I like the Idea, but I think you may need to find a better way of making the verdict on weather the game gets the seal or not. There's more than a chance it will fail, but its still worth a try, its not going to cost anyone anything to try, and if it does succeed it could change the industry for the better. But there has to be more concrete criteria for weather a game gets it or not, and the only way this will work is if word gets out there.

We're in the process of deciding the criteria right now.

The best way to start it would be to contact "hardcore indie" developers and try to persuade them to use the seal, then move on to indie, then onto smaller non-indie and so on. You also need alot of gaming websites to acknowledge the existence of the seal.

Already happening.

[Emasher]

Out of curiosity, who have you contacted?

[LazyBoy]

You'd have to ask Iun, Maiky, Tellyn and wildo, they're the ones with the contacts, and they'll be contacting them, spreading the word.

[Shino]

I think that even if this gets ignored by the main public, it could be a seal of great pride for games, kinda like getting a Oscar or a 40/40 on Famitsu, from gamers to gamers. Instead of having "expert" game reviewers with particular tastes and sometimes "alignments", this could be something that no one would doubt or question.

[flameboy]

Sounds like a great idea... I wonder how widespread this kind of intiative can become?

[Gizmo]

1. Anyone would be allowed to join, but it would be a place for reasoned argument and debate. Comments of fanboyism would be ignored.

2. Gamer's Seal of Approval, not a final name but you get the idea. A mother walking past the box sees this, is she more likely to buy it? I think so.

3. With any percentage score. Casuals aren't going to distinguish between reviewers, they figure they are all the same. This would be simple and straightforward. If it has the seal, it is worth your money.

4. Say you nothing about the Oscars, never heard of it, but you see a movie that won best film. Are you going to question it, or are you going to accept the fact that somewhere this is regarded as best film of the year, and even if you disagree with them it's gotta be worth a watch since someone put their neck on the line to rate this movie.

5. Let them come. We have a cause, they'll be hurdles. At least we're trying.

6. We start with the small developers, the ones that need the help. If they get it included the big guys will look around and ask why they aren't getting it. We plan on building a community of gamers that will write e-mails and articles about how this is important to them, and that they regard the seal a important.

7. I've thought it through plenty. I know there's a chance it might fail, but i'm willing to try. The industry is hurting and I'd rather put my neck out there and give it a chance than me pessimistic and accept it is the way it is, insulting and condescending those who actually want to make a difference. Keep your money.

1. So their opinions don't count? I'm just saying, its hard to draw the line of where someones opinion becomes stupid, where it should be ignored. Also, if there are too many people like that, it will become hard to sift through the garbage to get to the real opinions. Are you going to ban those people whos opinions you deem not worth listening to?

2. I don't think a Gamers Seal of Approval would entice them anymore than a 90% Editors Choice Award from Randomwebsite.com

Then theres the problem I identified before, where Capcom had huge support from IGN yet didn't use it on their packaging. Surely if it makes a difference they would have including that stuff? I don't see how this seal is any different.

3. Yes, reviewers are all the same. So a 90% from IGN is the same as a 90% from Gamespot. But does that not mean your seal will have the same pull level too? Only difference being your selection process, which Average Joe on the highstreet has no idea about. I don't think the title "Gamers Seal Of Approval" would encourage someone to buy it anymore than a review score. Perhaps this should be tested, on parents and aunts/uncles and so on.

4. How is a "Best Film" Oscar the same as this? The Oscar has a completely different selection process and is awarded once a year. Are you only going to give your Seal of Approval once a year?

5. ......

6. The review scores for the little guys is the same for the big guys, I don't see what difference this makes. Why wouldn't publishers include that on their box instead? Surely a small time game getting a score equal to Zelda would encourage people to buy it more than this?

7. I just really do not see how this will work.

And I didn't mean to insult you, I was just debating things on a forum, isn't that what it's for? The paypal thing was supposed to be a bit of a light hearted joke after a quite long, serious post, but it seems it didn't come out that way.

[LazyBoy]

1. So their opinions don't count? I'm just saying, its hard to draw the line of where someones opinion becomes stupid, where it should be ignored. Also, if there are too many people like that, it will become hard to sift through the garbage to get to the real opinions. Are you going to ban those people whos opinions you deem not worth listening to?

2. I don't think a Gamers Seal of Approval would entice them anymore than a 90% Editors Choice Award from Randomwebsite.com

Then theres the problem I identified before, where Capcom had huge support from IGN yet didn't use it on their packaging. Surely if it makes a difference they would have including that stuff? I don't see how this seal is any different.

3. Yes, reviewers are all the same. So a 90% from IGN is the same as a 90% from Gamespot. But does that not mean your seal will have the same pull level too? Only difference being your selection process, which Average Joe on the highstreet has no idea about. I don't think the title "Gamers Seal Of Approval" would encourage someone to buy it anymore than a review score. Perhaps this should be tested, on parents and aunts/uncles and so on.

4. How is a "Best Film" Oscar the same as this? The Oscar has a completely different selection process and is awarded once a year. Are you only going to give your Seal of Approval once a year?

5. ......

6. The review scores for the little guys is the same for the big guys, I don't see what difference this makes. Why wouldn't publishers include that on their box instead? Surely a small time game getting a score equal to Zelda would encourage people to buy it more than this?

7. I just really do not see how this will work.

And I didn't mean to insult you, I was just debating things on a forum, isn't that what it's for? The paypal thing was supposed to be a bit of a light hearted joke after a quite long, serious post, but it seems it didn't come out that way.

1. Opinions are counted when they are backed up by reasoned argument and debate.

2.IGN is one person reviewing a game, this is a community. That's the pull.

3. I think it will have more pull, and there will be testing. The name is temporary, and that'll be discussed. It will be made to highlight simplicity and mandate.

4. .... I thought it was a good comparison. If you don't think so you haven't got the right idea from this.

5. ,,,

6. I don't quite get this point. We're trying to reward risk and originality.

7. Sorry, I thought you were being snide. Never mind. Look, I've thought this through, and so have others. We have a team going now, and we all know there is a risk, but we have nothing to lose and we want to try.

The other point is not just trying to increase sales, but showing developers we respect their games even if they don't sell.

[Gizmo]

I'm too tired to go through everything right now so I won't bother.

All I will say is; good luck with your endevours, but I personally think it is a bit of a waste of time on your part. Prove me wrong.

[D_prOdigy]

I'm too tired to go through everything right now so I won't bother.

All I will say is; good luck with your endevours, but I personally think it is a bit of a waste of time on your part. Prove me wrong.

Why can I not get the image of Boris Johnson saying this out of my head?! :heh:

[Gizmo]

Why can I not get the image of Boris Johnson saying this out of my head?! :heh:

Because I model my life on his.