Best Game Stories??

[Daft]

Games Radar have a list of the top 15 video game stories.

http://www.gamesradar.com/f/the-best-videogame-stories-ever/a-200804179337286093

Metal Gear Solid (1998, PlayStation, PC)
Grim Fandango (1998, PC)
The Longest Journey (2000, PC)
Grand Theft Auto: San Andreas (PS2, Xbox, PC, 2004)
Beyond Good & Evil (PS2, Xbox, GameCube, PC, 2003)
Astro Boy: Omega Factor (Game Boy Advance, 2004)
Portal (Xbox 360, PC, PS3, 2007)
Gabriel Knight: Sins of the Fathers (PC, 1993)
Bioshock (Xbox 360, 2007)
Planescape: Torment (PC, 1999)
Fallout 2 (PC, 1998)
God of War (PS2, 2005)
Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic (Xbox, PC, 2003)
Final Fantasy VI (Super Nintendo, 1994)
Silent Hill 2 (Xbox, PS2, PC, 2001)

Anyone think otherwise?

My list would look a bit like this:

MGS2 (Really loved it)
Majora's Mask (Sinister)
BioShock (Lead me to read The Fountainhead)
Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic (The twist was probably the most epic moment ever)
Portal (Funny short story)
GTA: Vice City (Funny script)
Call of Duty 4 (Short but very sweet)

Probably more that I've missed out.

[Shino]

Every time a thread like this comes I always mention Prince of Persia: Sands of Time.

I haven't played most of the games in that list.

[Mr. Bananagrabber]

Take out God of War, Planetscape and Final Fantasy and put in MGS2, Eternal Darkness and Killer 7 and you have a good list.

[LazyBoy]

Killer 7
Killer 7
Killer 7
Killer 7Killer7Killer 7Killer 7Killer 7Well in my opinion it isKiller 7

[Wesley]

Half-Life?

Maybe.

Hybrid Heaven?

Maybe.

Broken Sword?

Hum.. maybe.

Skies of Arcadia...

...maybe.

Final Fantasy VII.

Hell. Yes.

[Jonnas]

It's all very subjective. I enjoyed several plots for different reasons:

-Zelda: OoT - The twists in the story are great. Also, exploring the world as an adult and caring to what happened to the people is the sign of a good story.

-Skies of Arcadia - Highly enjoyable. Nothing deep, or anything, but you just gotta fall in love with the world and characters.

-Tales of Symphonia - Pretty long story, which involved most of the characters' backstories and exploring most of the world, not to mention the racist undertones. Plus, just how many plot twists are in there, anyway?

-Final Fantasy IX - Too bad about the final boss, but I loved the rest of the game.


As you can see, I enjoy a game's story basing myself on the care I have for the characters and world.

That's why I didn't enjoy Golden Sun's story that much. I didn't like the towns, and the characters were clueless (seriously, how come Felix only explained everything to Isaac that far in the game? And why didn't they tell us Felix's motives at the beginning of Lost Age? I played the first part of the game not knowing why Felix did what he did.). What saved the game was the music, gameplay and side-quests.

[McMad]

Good list. I really should get round to playing Knights of the Old Republic considering I already own it.

[Dan Dare]

KOTOR is bitchin

I'd also include Mass Effect. Admittedly, the main plot isn't that extravagant or twisty but the texture of the whole affair is staggeringly deep.

also, Half Life 2+ episodes is probably the best story told to date in a game.

[flameboy]

Hotel Dusk- Rich diverse characters that all have their own agenda's and have so cleverly all woven together.

Half Life 2/Episode 1 (not played Episode 2 yet); Freeman is the greatest mute ever and as such the story telling innovates through its ingame usage of story telling mechanics.

[MoogleViper]

Shenmue

/thread

[Shino]

Was I the only one the only one that wasn't surprised by what happened in KOTOR? I love the game but what happened was rather predictable.

[Noodleman]

http://www.consoleclassix.com/info_img/Bad_Dudes_NES_ScreenShot3.jpg

[gaggle64]

I'd also include Mass Effect. Admittedly, the main plot isn't that extravagant or twisty but the texture of the whole affair is staggeringly deep.


I absolutely agree with you, Mass Effects joy is found in it's characters and sub plots.

Though I'm not yet very far through it, The World Ends With You is a remarkably enthralling tale, but I'll have to wait to see how some of the characters play out before passing final judgement. A slightly odd piece of dialogue or two in there as well. "The proof is in the pudding... of their doom!"

On another side note, CoD4 is an odd little gem. The story itself isn't really up to much (Arabs, communists, nuclear weapons, time running out you get the picture) but the way it's told is simply astounding.

[Dan Dare]

COD4's nuclear death scene is the best character death ever put to plastic, folks. Other than that, communists allied with religious extremists seems to be a bit of a cop out battle royale affair that's more chucklesome than dramatic.

Hotel Dusk- Rich diverse characters that all have their own agenda's and have so cleverly all woven together.

Half Life 2/Episode 1 (not played Episode 2 yet); Freeman is the greatest mute ever and as such the story telling innovates through its ingame usage of story telling mechanics.

that's why HL2 is so good- not only is it a great story, but the means by which it's told are almost all exclusive to gaming as opposed to them being ripped off (badly) from film, which is where pretty much every game ever gets it so wrong.


in short: show, don't tell and use the agency of the player to aid story telling rather than see it as an obstacle.

I'm looking at you, final fantasy. You bloated sack of shit.

[Solo]

http://www.ffnet.org/images/ff9-logo.jpg

[gaggle64]

Eternal Darkness. That was a good one. Excellent voice acting as well.

[Dan Dare]

yus. very good, actually. Too Human remains on my radar courtesy of ED's story, really.

[Jonnas]

that's why HL2 is so good- not only is it a great story, but the means by which it's told are almost all exclusive to gaming as opposed to them being ripped off (badly) from film, which is where pretty much every game ever gets it so wrong.


in short: show, don't tell and use the agency of the player to aid story telling rather than see it as an obstacle.

Does Metroid Prime fall into this category? I mean, the first one, at least. The second had too many cutscenes for my tastes.

Anyway, I'll include MP in my list, for the reasons you posted. No cutscenes, just you, figuring for yourself what the hell is going on, through the info you can collect.

[Ashley]

Portal? For the most part doesn't have a story. Its fun, I did really like it but up until about midway, perhaps later, its just "see what you can do with portals."

Anywho. Beyond Good and Evil has always been a favourite story of mine.

[darksnowman]

Eternal Darkness and Beyond Good & Evil get my full backing. I'm hard pressed to think of any others though now that you've put me on the spot. I could say FF IV but then VI eclipses it which is why they chose it.

I like Marjora's Mask... and Link's Awakening had a killer of a twist in the story, I thought. The likes of Tales of Symphonia, Skies of Arcadia and Fire Emblem all have great stories... otherwise I wouldn't have gotten into them. I'm sure there are plenty more, I'll have a think... but Astro Boy? Has anyone played it? I never thought it would have had the most engaging of storylines!

[Jordan]

Dreamfall: The Longest Journey has an terrific story and by far my favourite in any game ever.

Although Twilight Princess isn't that original at all, some of the parts of that story (particularly the relationship between Midna and Link) are amazing.

[gaggle64]

I've played Astro Boy. The story is actually not bad all told, very much in the franchises running theme of man's relationships with robots and vice versa. The game's so bloomin hard though I haven't been able to finish it.

[Jonnas]

Oh yeah, Link's Awakening. That game has quite a moving story, even if it is a relatively simple one.


And the Fire Emblem series is packed with awesome characters and cool stories:

-Fire Emblem GBA is my favourite in this aspect. 35+ interesting characters with backstories and good dialogue? I can't remember any other game with such a cast.

-Fire Emblem: PoR has a reasonable amount of good characters and a story with racism undertones. This world is easy to love. If they ever made a Fire Emblem MMO (never), this world would be my No.1 choice.

-Radiant Dawn seems to be a long game. I haven't played it yet, but I hope I don't have to wait much longer.

-Fire Emblem 4 has one hell of a twist. I still have to play it properly, though.

-Fire Emblem 6 is a bit more subjective. The story and characters are nothing special, really.
But I don't know why, this game managed to give me the "war" vibe better than the others.
There are still plenty of people who think the story sucks, though, and I can easily see their point.

[McPhee]

Radiant Dawn has a pretty good story going, a little predictable though. Playing wise it's not as good as PoR, there's times when it really, really drags on (the difficulty doesn't help)

[Hellfire]

That GR list is incredibly weird.. God of War? GTA? lol
I can throw in some, at the top of my head, Killer 7, Eternal Darkness, Half Life games, MGS, Grim Fandango, Chrono Trigger and Max Payne 1 & 2.
I could name some otherRPGs, but it doesn't feel right, lots of them have so many clichés and most I don't remember well, so I'll steer clear of that.
I could also say SotC and the Prime games for having a story without actually telling although, when you "figure" it out, the stories, although nice, aren't awesome. SotC wins due to it awesome conveying of feelings, while metroid is incredibly immersive and gives a fantastic perspective to Samus' missions and the metroid Universe.
And Zelda, despite not being very deep, has awesome twists, is immersive and leaves that room for speculation that I love. Every Zelda's story is etched into my mind (well, the first 2 weren't that story intensive lol), due to the loveable characters, the small details, the twists and everything that goes untold. Midna= Awesome

[Mundi]

Portals? Nahh it was more good gameplay with some very good jokes along the way.

My personnel favoutire story´s (no particular order) would be the Max Payne games, Planescape Torment, Bioshock and the first half of Fahrenheit and of course Psychonauts, I love that game

[Mr. Bananagrabber]

Portal wasn't a great story but it was told in a superb way.

Has any JRPG ever had a good story? I mean I love them, and Skies is one of my favorite games of all time, but jeez... :p

[Dan Dare]

in short, no. They're a self canibalising, ridiculous story book of a genre that went stagnant in about 1994. Their stories are uniquely perposterous, pretentious bollocks as far as the eye can see and show about as much craftsmanship as your average morning dump.

[Jordan]

in short, no. They're a self canibalising, ridiculous story book of a genre that went stagnant in about 1994. Their stories are uniquely perposterous, pretentious bollocks as far as the eye can see and show about as much craftsmanship as your average morning dump.

I love you Dan...

[Hellfire]

in short, no. They're a self canibalising, ridiculous story book of a genre that went stagnant in about 1994. Their stories are uniquely perposterous, pretentious bollocks as far as the eye can see and show about as much craftsmanship as your average morning dump.

XD awesome post

[Dan Dare]

I love you Dan...

that's what she said!


oooooooooohhhhh!


=(

[Dante]

Mine are:

MGS2
MGS3
Silent Hill 2
Half Life Series
Killer 7
Prince of Persia: Sands of Time
Eternal Darkness
Shadow of the Colossus
Portal
Zelda: MM
Zelda: LA

[Deathjam]

I think Deus Ex (first one) had an amazing story too, although nostalgia maybe clouding my judgement, but I am pretty sure that I was genuinely intrigued by the twists and turns of the plot. Most, if not all that has been mentioned has been worthy, especially SotC which still leaves that sad creepy feeling in my stomache when i remember it. Epic ending. MGS3 hasnt been mentioned for some reason i think.

[Dan Dare]

ooooooooooooooohhhhhhhhhhhhh! oooooooooooooooh!

Second Sight!

Totally forgot this gem. Again, it's good because it uses player agency as a story tool and completely pulls the wool over your eyes in doing so. Very well written, very stylistic and the actual game is pretty fucking good on top of that. Home of the most satisfying sniper rifle in yonks, I'll have you know.

[steggy]

I agree with the half life series, but also mention a little know PC RPG called Anachronox. That had a brilliant story, which even saw a release on Video CD which was basically a compilation of all of the cutscenes. Here's a link to one of the cutscenes which still is one of my favorite cutscenes of any game.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tPBnycGMwuA

Also honourable mentions go to, Giants: Citizen Kubuto and Armed And Dangerous for comedic writing. And I think the story in Hostile Waters is pretty good too, although I havn't managed to get to the end of it.

[Daft]

Also honourable mentions go to, Giants: Citizen Kubuto and Armed And Dangerous for comedic writing. And I think the story in Hostile Waters is pretty good too, although I havn't managed to get to the end of it.

HOLY MOLEY!! I loved that game!!

[mariosmentor]

For me I would probably include The Darkness.

The gameplay was fine and the story was really good for a FPS and it's execution was absolutely superb. The voice acting was spot on and something that games should aspire to.

[Uoon]

THE ones that stick out in my mind

MGS2 & 3
FFX

[Jamba]

Gotta say that sotry lines in games are still pretty poor. Dialogue and general writing has got better with some honourable mentions but the market thrives on archetypes. This makes all things a bit difficult.

Only one that I thought was particularly well written was Eternal Darkness, I've heard very good things about Call of Cthulu as well but I've only played a bit of it.

[Deathjam]

Gotta say that sotry lines in games are still pretty poor. Dialogue and general writing has got better with some honourable mentions but the market thrives on archetypes. This makes all things a bit difficult.

Only one that I thought was particularly well written was Eternal Darkness, I've heard very good things about Call of Cthulu as well but I've only played a bit of it.

Ah thats the other game i wanted for my xbox. To the ebay! But before I go, i think the legacy of kain/soul reaver games deserve a mention, specially the last one (the one that I actually completed) as you play as both kain and raziel, two mortal enemies who now have to fight on the same side, sorta, but one of your characters ends up dying to become the sword for the other. I was seriously shocked and saddened by this ending. Really liked that character and really felt for him as he had to suffer alot, mostly because of his misplaced trust in kain whom he has to trust again.

[Jamba]

Dammit, I've only played Sould Reaver 1... damn good game actually, eventhough it was half finished. Grrrrr... stoppit DJ!

[Deathjam]

LOL please tell me you didnt read the spoiler. Because you know, it was a spoiler :P

EDIT: I have only played really number one (didnt complete it, too scared :P) and a demo of soul reaver 2 but legacy of kain made me stick and complete it

[Jamba]

LOL please tell me you didnt read the spoiler. Because you know, it was a spoiler :P

EDIT: I have only played really number one (didnt complete it, too scared :P) and a demo of soul reaver 2 but legacy of kain made me stick and complete it

Hehe... nah i didn't. I was good :) You're just making me want to play more games that i dont have time for! But yeah, finish SR, its good but be warned it does end very abruptly.

[MBenZ]

Legacy Of Kain Series
Half Life Series
are the only one's that pop into my head

[Deathjam]

Hehe... nah i didn't. I was good :) You're just making me want to play more games that i dont have time for! But yeah, finish SR, its good but be warned it does end very abruptly.

The spider vampires, the way they moved just creeped the hell out of me. And then the water vampires were such a pain in the butt...hmm i got really far in this game. Makes me feel as if i did complete it...Or maybe I am just getting it confused with the last game.

[Fandango]

I thought Mass Effect's story was well-told, bit slow to start but it really picks up at the end and sets things up nicely for the sequel.

Grim Fandango had a great story as-well, wacky with sharp wit which is my kind-of-thing :smile:

[Jonnas]

I have to agree with Soul Reaver. I played 1 and 2, and I must say the story was the only saving grace of the second game.

Sadly, I could never play Defiance, due to technical problems. I need to give it another try, one of these days.

[Deathjam]

I have to agree with Soul Reaver. I played 1 and 2, and I must say the story was the only saving grace of the second game.

Sadly, I could never play Defiance, due to technical problems. I need to give it another try, one of these days.

Seriously do it. The story is so awesome, especially the final twist. And then the game itself is super fun too.

EDIT: I really think that I did complete the first one. Why is it so hard to remember how it ended?

[The Bard]

Bioshock
The Darkness - the story itself was good if a little standard, but it was perfectly told, and the music/ atmosphere of that game was astounding.
Chrono Trigger! - I agree with what Dan said about JRPG's. But most rules have their exceptions ;). A charming tale.
Beyond Good and Evil

I guess those are the ones that stand out in recent memory. I would have suggested Metroid Prime, but I know that it was pretty thin in terms of story...

And for the record; all Zelda games have shite stories. No really.

[Deathjam]

And for the record; all Nintendo games have shite stories. No really.

QFT and FIXED

[gaggle64]

Nintendo's plots are often just cannisters for their superb character writing. Majora's Mask is a superb story telling experience as you essentially save the world one individual at a time, while Animal Crossing makes you believe there are actual intelligences living and working in there. The Paper Mario series is stuffed full of witty dialogue and genuinly charming characters, and Midna from TP is easily one of the most interesting and enthralling video game characters I've ever seen.

[Jonnas]

I guess Gaggle said it all. Fire Emblem usually has great characters, too.

Earthbound has one of the worst stories I've ever seen, but the nice, quirky secondary characters made me go on to really appreciate the ending. And it has one of the few villains I've ever hated with a passion.

And Link's Awakening stands as the game that managed to create more emotions with the simplest of stories.

Nintendo games are like the 1st Season of Lost. It's all about the characters, really.

[Dan Dare]

Bioshock
The Darkness - the story itself was good if a little standard, but it was perfectly told, and the music/ atmosphere of that game was astounding.
Chrono Trigger! - I agree with what Dan said about JRPG's. But most rules have their exceptions ;). A charming tale.
Beyond Good and Evil

I guess those are the ones that stand out in recent memory. I would have suggested Metroid Prime, but I know that it was pretty thin in terms of story...

And for the record; all Zelda games have shite stories. No really.


re: the darkness: The story was alright, but so badly let down by the voice acting of the protagonist that I found it utterly boring. oh well. Other characters- his girlfriend particularly, were far better and more interesting.

[mariosmentor]

re: the darkness: The story was alright, but so badly let down by the voice acting of the protagonist.

Vaan and Tidus make this guys voice seem like heaven.

I thought the voice was alright and fit the character nicely. However, the great dialogue probably helped. Poor dialogue can affect voice acting quite a bit.

[The Bard]

Really? I really liked the voice acting for Jackie, yes it was fairly typically New York esque, but I found it very ingenuous all the same.

[mariosmentor]

Really? I really liked the voice acting for Jackie, yes it was fairly typically New York esque, but I found it very ingenuous all the same.

Yeah the voice is fine, but it could have been done badly like it is in most games.

It's not the voice that makes it shine I think but the writing and direction of the voice actors.

[Dan Dare]

to me he sounded like he'd been awake for about a week. His accent was fine but he sounded really, really tired. There was just no emotion going on. Also, his complete lack of surprise at having giant tentacles from hell burst out from his back made me loose alot of my suspended disbelief.

[Jamba]

Oh I forgot about Advent rising again! Really like the story in this and it was properly written out as well. In fact the other 2 games were already written but the original got a bad recpetion which was totally uncalled for.

Was really chomping at the bit for the sequel, shame really.

[Dan Dare]

I heard advent rising was just a technical mess. shame, really- the idea of a properly thought out, well written game was a good one.


generally, game stories suck so hard and i think alot of the blame can be placed on the medium's inferiority complex with cinema. Most devs are all 'zomg, our game is like a film only you control bits of it!' Which is a complete sack of balls and we all know it. All they ever produce is tacked on useless exposition cut scenes to give nothing more than shoddy context to 'Macho Space Marine XXV' and his teenage power trip fantasy antics. Gears of War being a prime example: I've completed that game close to three times now and there are bits that just make no sense. none whatsoever. It's one of the worst told stories of all time with no decernable plot, character development or depth to it. Bullshit!

Games are not movies and shouldn't be treated as such (MGS can suck my nadsack, too fyi) they should tell stories by using spatial exploration, example not exposition and dialogue worked in to the game, not latched on like some parasite. In short, they should tell stories like Half life 2.

[Jamba]

In short, they should tell stories like Half life 2.

Please don't get me started on the storyline of Half Life 2. In short, I felt it was tacked on. The videos were a good idea but a very cheap one.

[Jordan]

HL2, EP1 and EP2 have some characters which i truely felt for and enjoyed listening to.

There are so many games where i've skipped cut scenes because the characters are as interesting as a plank of wood.

[Dan Dare]

Please don't get me started on the storyline of Half Life 2. In short, I felt it was tacked on. The videos were a good idea but a very cheap one.

so the way that every single area of the game was specifically designed as a piece of story telling didn't grab your attention?

dude you are so, so wrong. It's not the simplest means of telling the story but you clearly just missed it.

[Mundi]

to me he sounded like he'd been awake for about a week. His accent was fine but he sounded really, really tired. There was just no emotion going on. Also, his complete lack of surprise at having giant tentacles from hell burst out from his back made me loose alot of my suspended disbelief.

Well I loved his voice, felt like it was right for his character.
But his lack of surprise because of the whole tentacle thing was just really bad....

[Mr. Bananagrabber]

Half Life 2's story is the ultimate example of why video games can be a better canvas for plot and character development than film imo. It's a shame that for every Alyx and Eli there's a Master Chief and a Marcus Fenix.

[Jamba]

so the way that every single area of the game was specifically designed as a piece of story telling didn't grab your attention?

dude you are so, so wrong. It's not the simplest means of telling the story but you clearly just missed it.

I didn't give a rats ass about anyone but dog and alex the whole way through the game. And I still don't. Most of the characters had really good acting but the actualy emotional connection. From what I can tell, they made the game with certain events written from the beginning, like the set pieces and things like "scared people huddled underneath window". The main overarching story seems extremely tagged on. All on monitors and tv screens with the main bad guy almost telling you directly the main plot? Thats just like telling the player that they had to find some excuse to explain what was going on.

[spirited away]

I think that Valve are great at storytelling. The blend of cross-referencing, spatial exploration, and the odd form of exposition (the monitors/screens et.c - incorporated smoothly into the game world) really helped me to pick up the story in an unintrusive way.

Dan Dare, would you agree that games such as Bioshock, (that allow greater use of perception and exploration to piece together the backstory), possess stronger narrative experiences than say a GOW-style storytelling experience - that consists of exposition solely in the forms of drip-fed cutscenes and dialogue. I've always found that method detracts from the immersion of games - I like to feel as if im taking on the role of a character, not sheperding him to his lineated path, but being led their myself. Which is kind of why I don't mind the lead protagonists in narritive-driven games being insipid bores, because their lack of charisma means you can impose yourself onto the character, a la Bioshock, Gordan Freeman, MC.

Not sure if that paragraph makes much sense but ah well.

[Zell]

I think the best part of Bioshock's storytelling is the audiodiaries. Though it wouldn't have been achieved without the fantastic voice acting.

Metroid Prime's story was told in such an amazing way... why did they have to fuck it up and make it all Halo in 3?

I'm playing through Chrono Trigger at the moment and it has one of the best RPG storylines ever.

The part at the Ocean Palace was awesome.

[Jamba]

I think that Valve are great at storytelling. The blend of cross-referencing, spatial exploration

OK can you explain this because I don't remember a single bit of the storyline that was helped by this. I think that HL2 was very good at showing WHAT was going on just not very good at show WHY or building that much of an emotional link. In fact, like many people, I found Alex to be very annoying, unlike her Dad who was a dude.

[spirited away]

OK can you explain this because I don't remember a single bit of the storyline that was helped by this. I think that HL2 was very good at showing WHAT was going on just not very good at show WHY or building that much of an emotional link. In fact, like many people, I found Alex to be very annoying, unlike her Dad who was a dude.

Well maybe i'm getting my words mixed up but I learnt quite a bit about Freeman, his role and his backstory through references to the accident and emotions he evoked in other characters - bearing in mind I started at Half Life 2. Also just wandering around City 17 and taking in the sites, the people, the architecture, helps piece together the world and the situation that the human race finds itself in. I probably misunderstanding the concept of 'spatial exploration'.

The WHY is yet to come. Seems to be building up to a big climax.

[Jamba]

Yeah but you could see that as Valve just wanting to give Freeman a Mesiah role (which they did so much it actually REALLY pissed me off). And the references to Black Mesa were mere sprinklings really, mostly when someone said "remember me from black mesa?" which was just a way of saying "this is your friend".

There were only 2 things in the game that felt full of character and not diluted.
Dog and Lavern (and they weren't even human!)


The WHY is yet to come. Seems to be building up to a big climax.

Yay, 3 episodes later. Making it a feel a bit like Lost aren't we? What, with the carrot and stick and carrot and stick?

Lost actually sparks intruige though, making you speculate about both the WHAT and the WHY. HL2 gave you all of the WHAT (well all that you would be getting that episode) and all of the WHY is done by the screens. Can you see why I think that it's taked on?

My interest in what was going on completed disappeared as soon as I got on that water bike and I found myself just completing the rest of the game out of sheer force. Really, honestly couldn't give a shit about any of the characters or the story world (except for dog, i wanna take him home).

[McMad]

My interest in what was going on completed disappeared as soon as I got on that water bike and I found myself just completing the rest of the game out of sheer force. Really, honestly couldn't give a shit about any of the characters or the story world (except for dog, i wanna take him home).

So you didn't actually enjoy the gameplay of Half-Life 2 I take it then?

[spirited away]

Lost actually sparks intruige though, making you speculate about both the WHAT and the WHY. HL2 gave you all of the WHAT (well all that you would be getting that episode) and all of the WHY is done by the screens. Can you see why I think that it's taked on?



I think I understand what you mean by the WHY being tacked on now. I never really paid attention to the screens (bar the first few), because it was tedious having to decipher the verbose philisophical garbage that came from that old dude and thus I don't understand the motives and reasons behind everything. That would have been alright if it wasn't the only means of explanation. To me it was just reams of text ( with the subtitles on) that meant little. I feel a little shortchanged now.

To me the What is beautifully scripted stuff though.

[Jamba]

So you didn't actually enjoy the gameplay of Half-Life 2 I take it then?

Rarely. It all felt very smooth and pollished but from a gameplay point of view I just had a huge amount of "so what?" going on most of the time. I liked the first one because of the puzzles but there was very little of this as it was more tactical gunplay this time. It just felt like a shooter with the occasional gravity gun puzzle and even those were pretty poor. From a game point of view, I was fairly unstimulated for most of the game (i.e. all of the middle).

I think I understand what you mean by the WHY being tacked on now. I never really paid attention to the screens (bar the first few), because it was tedious having to decipher the verbose philisophical garbage that came from that old dude and thus I don't understand the motives and reasons behind everything. That would have been alright if it wasn't the only means of explanation. To me it was just reams of text ( with the subtitles on) that meant little. I feel a little shortchanged now.

To me the What is beautifully scripted stuff though.

True the WHAT was very well scripted. But lets extrapolate that into any other form of culture and what you have is a piece of media or art that tries to do very little other than what you see. This is why I think that it has no story as such.

Well scripted sequences with little attention to WHY anything is happening is the definition of an Action Movie to me. It all kind of turned out like Transformers the Movie (2007), accept with Sam the main character missing entirely (being the best bit of the movei btw). That said, everyone and his dog new that it was going to be a bit of fun with no expectations of it being a piece of classic cinema. But HL2 has herritage in greatness and variety of gameplay which was completely lacking.

I know Dan is going to hate me for saying this but I found the actual story, characters, gameplay and setting in GoW to be superior to HL2 in everyway. Sure it was very homo-erotically "marine cliche" but who cares? It new that and it even takes the piss with it. HL2 may have been technologically fantastic and groundbreaking which they deserve praise for but just like Crysis, its nothing that I want out of a game.

[Deathjam]

Don't care if I have mentioned this before. Just saw the final fantasy retrospective on gametrailers and there was so little love for Vagrant Story. Story is so deep and well told. And yet I get the feeling that barely anyone has played this game. If people here still have a PS1 playing device, get this game and try it. It still looks fine to this day and has a lot more entertaining features than just its story. It also has a wealth of replayability so you won't be done with it too soon.

[Solo]

Max Payne

(and its sequel)

[Hellfire]

You guys are forgetting about Mario Sunshine!

What's awesome about Chrono Trigger is that the story itself is great, but it has so much deep hidden things, it's just mindblowing.

[Jonnas]

You guys are forgetting about Mario Sunshine!

....Are you serious? That was too basic for a normal game, and far too elaborate for a Mario game. :heh:

[Mr. Bananagrabber]

Every day of my life I try to forget Mario Sunshine.

[Deathjam]

...There...was a story in Mario sunshine>

[Dan Dare]

I thought the set up for sunshine was fucking hilarious. the court scene made me chuckle like a reet goon.

but it's like gaggle said- nintendo don't do plots, they do characters.


anyway, surely GTA 4 just blazed right to the top of the story pile? I've barely gotten started but my god the writing! the animation! the sound! It just raised the bar again for the entire industry and it doesn't even look like they found it hard.

[The-chosen-one]

to me the best story is still every legend of zelda game

[Dan Dare]

why? they're shit.

[Hellfire]

I know we just talked about this in the PoP thread, but you're posts are becoming increasingly ridiculous dan. C'mon, shape up, your bday is the same as mine! You're embarassing me!

Zelda stories are exactly what they are, they're not intended to be very deep and thought out, but the characters, the room for speculation, the connection between games among other things, make Zelda stories very cool on a completly different standard than other games. I'm glad they don't try to turn Zelda stories' into a FF or any other game, I want them to remain simple, yet more memorable than most games out there.

Also, I was being sarcastic about Sunshine, wake up people.

[Dan Dare]

But they're not good stories. They're good set ups for the standard progression which is what Nintendo do pretty well. It's not even really a problem with the series (it has far worse, but that's another thread) but there's just no way they belong in any discussion of good game stories when you compare it to Hl2, Prince of Persia or GTA4. It's a ridiculous comparison.

[Hellfire]

You're the one who's comparing them, a story is worth for the way it touches people and stays with them, everything else is accessory.

[Jordan]

I have to agree with Dan.

Although Zelda's story is told well, it doesn't mean its a particularly good storyline... if you get me.

[Dan Dare]

Exactly. It's well done enough, and does a servicable job (unlike some of the dross in the other thread) but it's just not in the same league as the other stuff in here.
also: the same plot 7 odd times or whatever is really fucking pushing it, let's be honest...

[Hellfire]

The only people who say the plots are the same are the people who don't pay attention to the story or the details. There is a parelellism yes (intentionally), but the same? No.
Try to understand, I'm not saying the story is in the same league as, say a Killer 7. It's just that both try to do completly different things and Zelda does what it's set out to do: it's simple and memorable and if you try to fit the timeline together and pay attention to the details you'll find that it's a very interesting storyline. Again, no comparison, Zelda is Zelda, it's different from the rest, but saying it's shit is just not right. There's a reason why I didn't put it with the main part of my "list", but it deserves a mention.
Also, Prince of Persia? oO

[gaggle64]

Zelda is it what it says it is: a legend. That is, a story which is retold again and again with variations on theme. Try to look at each Zelda game in the fullness of their medium, which is often very visual: the medieval emphasis of LTTP, the happy child and obliterated adult worlds of OOT, the bright Caribbean spirit of WW and the dark, playful surrealism of TP. It's story is often as much in the detail and mood of it's dungeons and environments as it is in it's plot, characters and dialogue. Games are a definitively visual medium, and sometimes I find are best approached like an interactive painting, rather than a movie or book.

[Jamba]

Haha... I love it how people are rushing to defend Zelda "story". We are talking about the story alone not the game and although the way that that story is told may be good its still a piss poor story.

It's the most bland combination of "coming of age" + "hero" stories that I've ever seen. But lets face it, I am talking about the "conventional" Zelda games, so in contrast I must say well done to LoZ: LA and LoZ: MM for actually doing a very good job.

[Athriller]

It's the most bland combination of "coming of age" + "hero" stories that I've ever seen. But lets face it, I am talking about the "conventional" Zelda games, so in contrast I must say well done to LoZ: LA and LoZ: MM for actually doing a very good job.

I'll agree with you on Majora's Mask, but Link's Awakening I'm not so sure on. It's my second favourite Zelda game and I love it to bits, but can you really forgive 'looooool it's all a dream :awesome: :awesome: :awesome: '?

Whilst we're here, I'm surprised no one's mentioned Battletoads Vs. Double Dragon. The game itself is awesome but the story is where it's at. 3 Humanoid toads and 2 martial experts all team up to save the universe from a big fat rat man, a big fat black man, some crazy ass space robot, Shredder from TNMT, an Arnold Schwarzenegger wannabe with a machine gun and some crazy dominatrix that wants to blow up Earth. Find me another game that encompasses 'HOLY SHIT' and 'FUCK YEAH' so well.

[Jamba]

I'll agree with you on Majora's Mask, but Link's Awakening I'm not so sure on. It's my second favourite Zelda game and I love it to bits, but can you really forgive 'looooool it's all a dream :awesome: :awesome: :awesome: '?

Oh yeah sure but lets get things in perspective. I don't remember many computer games out at the time that were ready to get metaphysical on their own story. It's not so much a dream anyway, more like a coma.

[Hellfire]

It's not rushing to defend anything, it's an opinion, jeez. I could say you're rushing to attack it :P
I think it's the less bland combination of coming of age+hero story, because, let's face it, most other stories of the type seem taken from a generic anime. I'd like to see games with "piss poor" stories with so many memorable characters and speculation and theories about the storylines.

And about LA, at that time there weren't a lot of "it's a dream" stories. Not to mention that it's not the fact that it's a dream, it's the fact that you were inside someone else's dream and all that you did basically destroyed everyone you met in the game just so that you could get out of the dream and the whale could wake up. Seems kinda selfish.

Just like in MM, if you look at the story from afar it seems crap "Oh shit, the moon's gonna destroy the world, I gotta go back in time constantly to stop it", but after playing it and paying attention, knowing all the characters and relations make it great.

The way the story is told is very important to me, for example, most people couldn't make a story out of HL1+HL2 (hence why Valve put Alyx constantly in the episodes, it's easier to understand), but if you really pay attention to things, it's a really, really good story I loved that, just like Metroid doesn't have that much of a story, but the details included on the scans make it engrossing.

On the flipside, MGS3 has a great story, 98% of which is told in the last cutscene and the whole game is riddled with ridiculous characters. And MGS2 is just a mess of trying to shove philosophy down your throat. MGS though, managed an awesome balance of great story and great story telling.

SotC, doesn't have that much of a story but the way it's (not) told, the bond with the (2) characters and the speculation it allows is what makes me like it.

My point is, I can like a game's story for various reasons.

[Jamba]

speculation and theories about the storylines.

Just because the series is popular and the majority of people are idiots doesn't make the fact that speculation = good. The fact that the story is told again and again confuses the audience so they try and look for a way to link them together into a chain, one after the other. Maybe one of the reasons they are doing this is because they love the game very deeply but they are making speculations due to the lack or story.


My point is, I can like a game's story for various reasons.

Well that's fine but I'm trying to seperate the story from the game and look at that alone. You're not doing that and hence why we have differing opinions (which even if you did, we would probably still have).

[Hellfire]

Ah, so you know everything and can tap into my head and know that I am not separating the story from the game, despite showing similar examples and explaining everything in all my posts? Oh and apparently I'm an idiot. Poor me I'm not a cool guy, because I like almost everything Nintendo does, don't worry Jamba, one day I'll be as cool as you and people on the internet won't think I'm a fanboy. That will be awesome. I just hope I can have an almighty inteligence like yours, so that my opinion will turn to fact.
Get off your high horse and let people have their fucking opininons.
(I know, generic rage, I felt like it :P)

[Deathjam]

Ah, so you know everything and can tap into my head and know that I am not separating the story from the game, despite showing similar examples and explaining everything in all my posts? Oh and apparently I'm an idiot. Poor me I'm not a cool guy, because I like almost everything Nintendo does, don't worry Jamba, one day I'll be as cool as you and people on the internet won't think I'm a fanboy. That will be awesome. I just hope I can have an almighty inteligence like yours, so that my opinion will turn to fact.
Get off your high horse and let people have their fucking opininons.
(I know, generic rage, I felt like it :P)

I have nothing more to say other than lol :bowdown:

[Jamba]

Get off your high horse and let people have their fucking opininons.
(I know, generic rage, I felt like it :P)

Pot calling kettle-black me-thinks? I'm sorry if I challenge your opinions or views but all I'm trying to do is compare our opinions on the same playing field instead of having a discussion that last ages and result in finding out nothing. I'm trying to ask you about your views on storylines as purely stories, not as the way they are presented, or in parts by looking at the characters individually and the like.

Insulting me by claiming that I'm on my "high horse" is just a pathetic expression of your frustration about this conversation and so I'm just going to ignore it. If it's not and you actually have a problem with me then you don't have to reply to what I'm saying. I can have a decent discussion with Pedro, shame I can't with you.

[Portlett]

personally i thought tetris had a great storyline...

[Tellyn]

personally i thought tetris had a great storyline...

In a world ravaged by famine, disease and war, our only hope lies in...

http://www.siliconera.com/news/0606/dsbb03.jpg

[Hellfire]

The discussion was actually pretty decent until you said that people that speculate on Zelda stories are idiots, meaning I'm an idiot and assumed that you know how I formed my opinion, despite the fact that I explained everything To me, someone who makes this kind of posts is indeed, on a high horse and I'm not taking that back (specially because the original post I was typing really was offensive and there was no reason for that lol)

From my first post here, I explained the reasons why I think the Zelda story has its merits, yet you just assume I'm doing it because I'm not separating the game and the story and assume that I would say the same (because I'm a fanboy obviously, rushing to defend Zelda) anyway. Did you even bother reading my posts?

" Killer 7, Eternal Darkness, Half Life games, MGS, Grim Fandango, Chrono Trigger and Max Payne 1 & 2." This was my main list of games with great stories, the others I explained more than once why I liked them, because I like them for different qualities than the normal standart for judging a different story.
After explaining things so many times and saying that to me a story isn't just about storyline and then seeing a post like yours, like I didn't write anything before, it's kinda irritating.
And no, I don't have anything against you, nor am I trying to flame or insult or anything, but I can't stand when people ignore when I post my (or anyone else's) reasonings. LIke you said: "I'm trying to ask you about your views on storylines as purely stories, not as the way they are presented, or in parts by looking at the characters individually and the like." and in my posts I always said that storylines alone aren't a story at all, the way it's told is incredibly important to the story, which is why I said in my first post that Zelda didn't have a deep story (thus I don't think it's one of the series with best stroies), but I love the way it's told, the characters and the speculation (I know, I'm an idiot).

EDIT: I think it's enough for this discussions, our points have been made and I hope you weren't insulted, but it's easy to see where I'm coming from when I said that.

[Portlett]

I thought the story for Ocarina of Time was pretty decent really, ofcourse its a tad cliched but when I played it I felt immersed in the world and the story, ultimately its the characters that bring a story together and Zelda has great characters in my opinion.

[Ren of Heavens]

Shenmue/Shenmue II
Chrono Trigger
Max Payne 1/2
Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic
Metal Gear Solid 1/2

[pedrocasilva]

Zelda has story, and a good one at that, specially in recent installments since OoT, it has good building up for dramatic scenes and all that; the fact that the game itself is not story driven (as with 5 minute custscenes per every 10 minutes of gameplay) doesn't mean it has no story, or that it is crap, just because parallelisms can be made with previous installments; they're there just for that actually, just like a zelda theme music remix is... Formulaic yes, mindless and always the same, no.

Zelda's story actually have, something that most games actually lack, some with good argument even... consequences, real ones, for the hero, for his relationship with the world, even if he doesn't talk.

That and romance a lot of games force it, a lot of games provide it as fanservice... while Zelda resists against it; lack of history or lack of convenience? because it's not like the chemistry between characters is gone, even if link never kisses Zelda. That only contributes to some scenes dramatism actually.

Link by the end of OoT, even if all that ever happened was erased from other's memories, it's in his, so he can't stay in lost woods anymore... In TP under different circumstances he leaves ordon as well. Why? because he doesn't belong there anymore, because he grew out of that. But... by consequence, he doesn't have a place he belongs to.

And people in Nintendo forums, of all things should know this, along with other curiosity's like Link, despite wearing skirts, is a man and the like.

I can't agree with Zelda stories being shite; if anything, with how rich the universe they created is, and the situations they created... it is a waste that they don't cover some of the best parts of the story implied; but IT IS implied.

[Jonnas]

Pedro made a great point there. Zelda has great story-telling. In fact, several Zeldas have had touching endings:

-Wind Waker, where the King sacrificed his whole kingdom, just so a decent future could be had. And Link leaving his island to fullfill the King's wishes.

-Link's Awakening, where Link just obliterated the whole island, and everyone in it. The good part is that you find out it's a dream in the middle of the game. You spend half of the game knowing you'll kill everyone, in the end.

-Twilight Princess, where Link left everything behind, only to find Midna.

[Deathjam]

I feel like i became slightly more intelligent from reading these past few posts :heh:

[Shino]

I can't believe people didn't saw it coming in Kotor.