Communism

[Stalin]

Good idea?

Discuss.

Love,

Joseph xx

[Shino]

I love you Stalin.

Good idea on paper, no community is honest enough to do it right.

[DomJcg]

I love you Stalin.

Good idea on paper, no community is honest enough to do it right.

said it in one, which sucks =(

the closest was in america with the indians peoples no?

[MadDog]

this is a stupid thread lol

[Stalin]

the closest was in america with the indians peoples no?
I like to think I had a jolly good crack at it.

[James]

I like to think I had a jolly good crack at it.

That you did, that you did.

[Hem]

Hello Zeik :)

[triforcemario]

Stalin, how are you even here? Aren't you supposed to be dead? Infact, you've been dead for 54 years!

[darksnowman]

Bizarrely, I voted yes.

[Hellfire]

http://laughingsquid.com/wp-content/uploads/communist_party_t-shirt.gif

[Stalin]

Oh look, 'yes' is winning. Red strength is alive and well, I see.

[Zechs Merquise]

What a stupid thread. Communism is the sickest ideology going.

[Chuck]

Commuinism is a load of posh. The ideology and political system is crazy. Capitalism is they way forward. Power to the people!

[Stalin]

What a stupid thread. Communism is the sickest ideology going.
Please feel free to elaborate.

[MadDog]

GTFO Stalin, LOL

[Zechs Merquise]

Please feel free to elaborate.

ELABORATION: Communism views everyone as an equal nothing, thusly robbing the individual of any individuality, scoiety of any drive and the economy of the free spirit and entrepreneurial drive it needs to be a success.

The idea that a street sweeper and a barrister are equal and should be rewarded equally is as absurd as it is dangerous. What's more in practice it always ends with a small group being super rich and running society with an iron fist without any regard for the rest of society.

[Haden]

Oh dear god communism...


Oh man so much bad stuff to say, unbelivably bad. Um yeh nice utopian idea but in reality its caused such a shitstorm in history its unbelivable. That and Fascism were disasters and always will be. Divided people really horribly legitimising murder.

And people still think its cool to wear communist leaders on tshirts whears if u did that with a fascist leader people would quite rightly think hmm hes a bit of a nutter.

So in essence u my answer is no! Oh wait crap! :(

[Stalin]

it always ends with a small group being super rich and running society with an iron fist without any regard for the rest of society.
That's sort of the point, I think.

[Zechs Merquise]

And people still think its cool to wear communist leaders on tshirts whears if u did that with a fascist leader people would quite rightly think hmm hes a bit of a nutter.

So in essence u my answer is no! Oh wait crap! :(

An awesome point, the fact any **** can walk down the street in a T-Shirt that glorifies some mass-murdering dictator as a fashion icon is a gross insult to the millions of people murdered and tortured at said dictator's hand.

[gaggle64]

I like to think I had a jolly good crack at it.

No you didn't, you betrayed Lennin and his principles, and subjugated Russia to a horrific and unjust theocracy that made the rule of the Tzars look like a Democratic-Welfare state. Boo, boo I say sir.

[Oxigen_Waste]

It's a party.

[Hem]

I wonder who's gimmick account this is.

[Stalin]

No you didn't, you betrayed Lennin and his principles, and subjugated Russia to a horrific and unjust theocracy that made the rule of the Tzars look like a Democratic-Welfare state. Boo, boo I say sir.
I'd like to see you do better!

Love,

Joseph xx

[The Bard]

Hurrah for mass graves, propagation of bullshit such as the belief that acquired characteristics are passed genetically, oh and the parasitic ideals that from the backbone of the whole charade...and well, there you have it. You've done the motherland proud, Joseph old man.

[Chuck]

Death solves all problems - no man, no problem.

Joseph Stalin

[triforcemario]

I'm still waiting for someone to make a Hitler, Franco or Musollini account.

[Stalin]

Death solves all problems - no man, no problem.

Joseph Stalin
It's a good quote, but I never actually said it. It was made up by the Russian author Anatoly Rybakov in his 1987 novel Children of the Arbat.

[Emasher]

You forgot to put a "No" option.

[James]

Oh look, 'yes' is winning. Red strength is alive and well, I see.

Strangely its the red yes as well.

[The fish]

What a stupid thread. Communism is the sickest ideology going.

What about, say, religious fundamentalism, or totalitarianism?

We're talking about pure communism here, I believe, not Soviet Communism.

[BlueStar]

An awesome point, the fact any **** can walk down the street in a T-Shirt that glorifies some mass-murdering dictator as a fashion icon is a gross insult to the millions of people murdered and tortured at said dictator's hand.

I've seen plenty of Che Guevara t-shirts, don't see many people with dictators on their shirts though.

[Stalin]

I've seen plenty of Che Guevara t-shirts, don't see many people with dictators on their shirts though.
http://www.cafepress.com/sovietgear

[Haden]

No you didn't, you betrayed Lennin and his principles, and subjugated Russia to a horrific and unjust theocracy that made the rule of the Tzars look like a Democratic-Welfare state. Boo, boo I say sir.

Oh man Lenin. Everyone thinks hes a nice guy which in comparison to Stalin he was. And he did get betrayed. But boy was he a bastard as well. Man alive the bolshevicks really knew how to beat the crap out of people in there time.

And che guavvera was also another disaster zone :S

[Zell]

Well, if we ever achieved Karl Marx's vision, then you know it might work. Unfortunately that will never happen. And besides, all people aren't equal.

[Daft]

I voted yes.

[Shino]

I didn't expect such an "American" response to this. Thankfully, yes is winning.

[Haden]

I didn't expect such an "American" response to this. Thankfully, yes is winning.

Um...

Ok by american you mean mcarthy? As you cant quantify an american response. And people are just disagreeing so I guess american means different points of view means not communist? :heh:

[Shino]

Um...

Ok by american you mean mcarthy? As you cant quantify an american response. And people are just disagreeing so I guess american means different points of view means not communist? :heh:

Yes kind of McCarthy. Its just that in my view Communism is more about the utopia than the people who tried it.

[Oxigen_Waste]

Yes kind of McCarthy. Its just that in my view Communism is more about the utopia than the people who tried it.

Touché.
And I totally agree about the "American response" thingy.

[Haden]

Agh man the american response? After ww2 had ended in Europe Truman tried to make peace with Stalin and American foriegn policy was specifically aimed at avoiding a bi polar world and spheres of influence. Stalin rejected this and made demands to inherit some of the Italian Empire and refused to allow free elections in east europe.

The dominance of one paticular part of America came to the fore becuase of events in east asia where american foriegn policy at the time oversimplyfied things sadly and made quite a few mistakes like chucking out experts on china becuase they were seen as "un american" but this was a fight within america and wasnt helped by the forces of communism fuelling it.

As for communism the utopia I guess it would be nice but even if it worked out I disagree with its limitations to human thought by ruling out religion as a principle and the fact that it says morality shouldnt exist. As its basically turns humanity into a science experiment which makes life worthless and killing if something is agianst the experiment fine (as seen with the kulaks). Marx also makes so many character judgements on bourgraise people saying basically everyone in the class are cowards and disgusting yet he him self was hardly a poor worker and lenin was upper class!

[Sheikah]

A rubbish ideology, mostly because some people ought to be shot and not treated equally. I'm thinking chavs (although the state severely funds them for doing jack **** anyway).

[Domo Kun]

I'm somewhere between a communist and socialist politically. Basically my arguement is that although people say it hasn't worked, I don't belive our capitalist system to be working, simply because people are starving today. I also don't think we've seen a true communist society. Is that because it's unattainable? I'm not sure... I know a lot of people would say so.

Would more people starve if we had global socialism? I don't know, but I think we should be aiming towards it.

Although people say there'd be no motivation in a communist society, I think there would be. I know I'd be more active at work if I knew I was getting my fare share of the wage, instead of making Marks and Spencer £1000 an hour and getting £5 of it.

I don't belive in violent revolutions or five year plans, just to add. I'd like to see a socialist government elected peacefully :)

[Zechs Merquise]

What about, say, religious fundamentalism, or totalitarianism?

We're talking about pure communism here, I believe, not Soviet Communism.

Pure communism, please explain? All Communism has led to death, hardship and suffering. Not all religious fundamentalism is bad, for example Bhuddist monks could be described as fundamentalists however they don;t go around doing anyone any harm.

Fundamentalism is only seen as a negative when the 'fundamentals' of the religion are based around territory and bringing war to the non-believer.

[Domo Kun]

Pure communism, please explain? All Communism has led to death, hardship and suffering.

I assume what he means is that we haven't seen a 'pure communist' society yet. I certainly wouldn't say we have. I think we've seen evil people take power using the promise of communism, but not actually delivering.

What is pure communism? Is it taking Carl Marx word for word? Because he was pro imperialism, and I certainly am not a fan of that. I don't think most leftys are. I think it's making what you can out of the ideology whilst taking a humanist perspective. So whilst Starlin wasn't the best leader of the S.Union, perhaps if... urm... Nelson Mandella (generic kind politician) had his iron claw upon Russia, it would have looked more like a soft teddy bear's paw, sharing food and the like.

[Haden]

Pure communism, please explain? All Communism has led to death, hardship and suffering. Not all religious fundamentalism is bad, for example Bhuddist monks could be described as fundamentalists however they don;t go around doing anyone any harm.

Fundamentalism is only seen as a negative when the 'fundamentals' of the religion are based around territory and bringing war to the non-believer.

Where have you been hiding I want to give you a hug!

This is why christian fundementalism is not a bad thing. Christian nationalism as I like to call it on the other hand is. But the media has completley screwed up the word fundementalism to such an extent it basically means evil lunatic now.

[Shino]

I believe that in capitalist societies some people make absurd amounts of money, money they probably can't even spend during their lifetime. Wouldn't it be preferable to share it all equally to the ones less fortunate? In my trip to Cuba, I saw a society that despite its economic and political problems, had food, health care, and education for everyone.

[firthy1991]

yes, lets be communist, then we get robbed all the time because your possesions belong to everyone, exellent idea

[BlueStar]

Are we talking about communism with a big C or a little C? I'm not actually sure what people are talking about at all in this thread, communist ideology, communist states, socialist ideals... In fact, I don't think any one is.

[Stalin]

Are we talking about communism with a big C or a little C? I'm not actually sure what people are talking about at all in this thread, communist ideology, communist states, socialist ideals... In fact, I don't think any one is.
Interpret it however you want sweetie xx

[Jordan]

As a theory, Communism is perfect.

In practise? Its horrific due to human nature.

[Oxigen_Waste]

As a theory, Communism is perfect.

In practise? Its horrific due to human nature.

The Jardon said it all.
It doesn't work because we are a horrible breed.

[Zechs Merquise]

As a theory, Communism is perfect.

In practise? Its horrific due to human nature.

It is not perfect at all in theory. The theory assumes everyone is equal and we are all capable of the same, where as everyone is different and has different strengths and weaknesses which is why it fails. A theoy that doesn't work in practice is no good, thus a poor theory.

[BlueStar]

It is not perfect at all in theory. The theory assumes everyone is equal and we are all capable of the same, where as everyone is different and has different strengths and weaknesses which is why it fails.

Huh? (reads again)..... Huh?!? Surely that's not the case at all, in fact pretty much the exact opposite. Karl Marx coined the phrase "From each according to his ability, to each according to his need." ie those who are most capable do more to support those who are weaker. Indeed you see this in things like socialised medicine, something which some Americans think makes us pinko commies. Those who are highly intelligent or physically strong or excellent footballers pay taxes from the jobs they find themselves doing to pay for the care and medicine of people who are, for example, brain damaged and can't feed and dress themselves never mind go out and earn £20,000pa.

Capitalism however DOES like to present as its basis this myth that everyone is the same and everyone can "make it" if they just apply themselves. Of course the truth is that if there really was equal opportunity for all and everyone decided to "make it" then the whole basis of capitalism would crumble because it needs poor people doing menial jobs to support it.

Thatcherite stuff like the poll tax is the kind of mentality that assumes we are all capable of the same and can all contribute the same to society (if society existed, which of course as Maggie pointed out to us, it doesn't). So John Terry pays the same amount as some starving pensioner war veteran who can barely pay his heating bill, completely ignoring things like the ability to pay. Cue riots.

[Meta_Omega]

I'm somewhere between a communist and socialist politically.Communism is branch of Socialism. The other, "peaceful", branch is Social Democracy. The thing that differs between the two is how they get in power, communists commit revolution whereas social democrats do it in a democratic fashion through voting and peaceful reforms.


And about my opinion: What Jordan and Oxigen_Waste said.

[Oxigen_Waste]

It is not perfect at all in theory. The theory assumes everyone is equal and we are all capable of the same, where as everyone is different and has different strengths and weaknesses which is why it fails. A theoy that doesn't work in practice is no good, thus a poor theory.

BlueStar already said it, but I just have to make sure. Did you really think that that was what communist equality meant?

[danny]

Capitalism however DOES like to present as its basis this myth that everyone is the same and everyone can "make it" if they just apply themselves. Of course the truth is that if there really was equal opportunity for all and everyone decided to "make it" then the whole basis of capitalism would crumble because it needs poor people doing menial jobs to support it.


Everyone can make it in capilaism. Everyone as in an indervidual. As long as you apply yourself more than everyone else.
But not everyone in the collective term.

[Shino]

Everyone can make it in capilaism. Everyone as in an indervidual. As long as you apply yourself more than everyone else.
But not everyone in the collective term.

I think you missed the retard part of his post.

[Haden]

As a theory, Communism is perfect.

In practise? Its horrific due to human nature.

Definatly no way is it perfect lets not be shifting all the blame onto humanity here.

[Zechs Merquise]

Definatly no way is it perfect lets not be shifting all the blame onto humanity here.

Too right. At least someone on hear doesn't live in political cloud cuckoo land.

[Oxigen_Waste]

Too right. At least someone on hear doesn't live in political cloud cuckoo land.

Precisely. This is isn't cloud cuckoo land because of human presence. Otherwise it would be. You said it all there. The ideology itself is absolutely flawless from every single point of view, but people aren't that perfect. We are flawed, hence, it can never work.

[Indigo]

Communism is branch of Socialism. The other, "peaceful", branch is Social Democracy. The thing that differs between the two is how they get in power, communists commit revolution whereas social democrats do it in a democratic fashion through voting and peaceful reforms.
Actually, just to be precise, there are two main peaceful branches of socialism - democratic socialism and social democracy. The former seeks democratic legitimacy with the aim upon election of eradicating capitalism and implementing socialism. The latter also operate in the democratic process, but once in power, their aim is not to dismantle capitalism, but rather to incorporate socialist measures within the current system (eg. welfare, progressive taxation).

And then of course there is the supposed 'third way', which is what the New Labour big-wigs talked up in the 1990s. It's questionable whether this was actually a serious ideology though, or just an attempt to give ideological credibility to New Labour's pragmatic agenda. The party dropped the phrase all together by the end of the 90's, so that probably says something.

[Haden]

Precisely. This is isn't cloud cuckoo land because of human presence. Otherwise it would be. You said it all there. The ideology itself is absolutely flawless from every single point of view, but people aren't that perfect. We are flawed, hence, it can never work.

Ok then in that case every political theory is perfect bar humans lol :D

[Indigo]

Precisely. This is isn't cloud cuckoo land because of human presence. Otherwise it would be. You said it all there. The ideology itself is absolutely flawless from every single point of view, but people aren't that perfect. We are flawed, hence, it can never work.
So the ideology is perfect - except for the huge problem that it completely misunderstands people? (people being afterall what the ideology purports to serve/benefit)

I think given the latter fact, 'fatally flawed' would be the only valid description.

[BlueStar]

Too right. At least someone on hear doesn't live in political cloud cuckoo land.

Someone 'hear' is ignoring the post they made where they demonstrated that they didn't have the first clue what they were talking about.

[Oxigen_Waste]

So the ideology is perfect - except for the huge problem that it completely misunderstands people? (people being afterall what the ideology purports to serve/benefit)

I think given the latter fact, 'fatally flawed' would be the only valid description.

Or not. If we made an effort as a community, it would work. It's not ignoring the fact that we're human, it just assumes that we're not scumbags, wich we sadly are. I'm not defending communism or anything, I'm not a communist, I'm just stating the facts.

[Zechs Merquise]

Someone 'hear' is ignoring the post they made where they demonstrated that they didn't have the first clue what they were talking about.

I disagree. I believe communism to be a sick ideology that whether it actually views everyone as equal, the fundamental aim is to make everyone equal. The failing of this is it is nigh-on impossible to raise the levels of the lowest to that of the highest, hence in communist societies so many are murdered - often the brightest and most free thinking - in an effort to reduce the population to the lowest common denominator.

So the ideology is perfect - except for the huge problem that it completely misunderstands people? (people being afterall what the ideology purports to serve/benefit)

I think given the latter fact, 'fatally flawed' would be the only valid description.

Any theory that fails to account for a major variable is fatally flawed in the highest sense.

Or not. If we made an effort as a community, it would work. It's not ignoring the fact that we're human, it just assumes that we're not scumbags, wich we sadly are. I'm not defending communism or anything, I'm not a communist, I'm just stating the facts.

You've contradicted yourself you state communism 'assumes', well assumption is the mother of all f*ck ups. and Communism in every place it has been implemented turned out to be one big messy f*ck up.

[BlueStar]

I disagree. I believe communism to be a sick ideology that whether it actually views everyone as equal, the fundamental aim is to make everyone equal. The failing of this is it is nigh-on impossible to raise the levels of the lowest to that of the highest, hence in communist societies so many are murdered - often the brightest and most free thinking - in an effort to reduce the population to the lowest common denominator.

Jesus man, do you never think to, for instance, at least scan a wikipedia article or something before jumping in with both feet into an argument?

Anyway, at least the Commies were on our side during the war, we'd have been proper fucked without them

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/18/WorldWarII-MilitaryDeaths-Allies-Piechart.png

[Mundi]

The main flaw in communism are the flaws of man because it requires that everyone is equal and people in power tend to shift the balance.
Because as most people should know power corrupts

[Zechs Merquise]

Jesus man, do you never think to, for instance, at least scan a wikipedia article or something before jumping in with both feet into an argument?

Anyway, at least the Commies were on our side during the war, we'd have been proper fucked without them

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/18/WorldWarII-MilitaryDeaths-Allies-Piechart.png

Yes, however the Soviets were shooting many thousands of their own people, other Eastern Europeans and in many cases their own troops.

Infact, if you look back to WW2 Britain declared war on Germany, not the other way around. The whole war was started over the neutrality of Poland, of which large parts were actually former German soil inhabited by Germans.

[Haden]

Jesus man, do you never think to, for instance, at least scan a wikipedia article or something before jumping in with both feet into an argument?

Anyway, at least the Commies were on our side during the war, we'd have been proper fucked without them

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/18/WorldWarII-MilitaryDeaths-Allies-Piechart.png

Yeh the Soviet Union helped us loads and we would have been in massive trouble without them. Your point is? I mean for god sake they were completley self serving they allied with Hitler. Hitler the Fascist! Then it was only when he betrayed them that they were forced to come to our side! Then after the war they annexed half of Europe.

Having said that without them we would have been in big big trouble and frankly god knows what would have happened but I mean morally or however your tryna frame this not so good. And after the war they werent exactly big pals with us or eastern europe.

[Meta_Omega]

Hitler the Fascist!

For your information, he was a Nazi, rather a National Socialist.

[Noodleman]

Under Hitler the Nazis where only a socialist party by name. They where about as right wing as you can get.

[BlueStar]

I mean for god sake they were completley self serving they allied with Hitler. Hitler the Fascist!

Hold on, lets put this into a little context here
http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/RUSnazipact.htm
In the 1930s Joseph Stalin became increasingly concerned that the Soviet Union would be invaded by Germany. Stalin believed the best way to of dealing with Germany was to form an anti-fascist alliance with countries in the west. Stalin argued that even Adolf Hitler would not start a war against a united Europe.

Neville Chamberlain, the British prime minister, was not enthusiastic about forming an alliance with the Soviet Union. He wrote to a friend: "I must confess to the most profound distrust of Russia. I have no belief whatever in her ability to maintain an effective offensive, even if she wanted to. And I distrust her motives, which seem to me to have little connection with our ideas of liberty, and to be concerned only with getting everyone else by the ears."

Winston Churchill, an outspoken critic of British foreign policy, agreed with Joseph Stalin: "There is no means of maintaining an eastern front against Nazi aggression without the active aid of Russia. Russian interests are deeply concerned in preventing Herr Hitler's designs on eastern Europe. It should still be possible to range all the States and peoples from the Baltic to the Black sea in one solid front against a new outrage of invasion. Such a front, if established in good heart, and with resolute and efficient military arrangements, combined with the strength of the Western Powers, may yet confront Hitler, Goering, Himmler, Ribbentrop, Goebbels and co. with forces the German people would be reluctant to challenge."

Stalin's own interpretation of Britain's rejection of his plan for an antifascist alliance, was that they were involved in a plot with Germany against the Soviet Union. This belief was reinforced when Neville Chamberlain met with Adolf Hitler at Munich in September, 1938, and gave into his demands for the Sudetenland in Czechoslovakia. Joseph Stalin now believed that the main objective of British foreign policy was to encourage Germany to head east rather than west.

Stalin realized that war with Germany was inevitable. However, to have any chance of victory he needed time to build up his armed forces. The only way he could obtain time was to do a deal with Hitler. Stalin was convinced that Hitler would not be foolish enough to fight a war on two fronts. If he could persuade Hitler to sign a peace treaty with the Soviet Union, Germany was likely to invade Western Europe instead.

[Stalin]

Oh my, this is all getting a bit serious isn't it? Let's all have a cup of tea and a chocolate digestive.

[Oxigen_Waste]

You've contradicted yourself you state communism 'assumes', well assumption is the mother of all f*ck ups. and Communism in every place it has been implemented turned out to be one big messy f*ck up.

Nonetheless, it's our fault, not the ideology.

[Zechs Merquise]

Under Hitler the Nazis where only a socialist party by name. They where about as right wing as you can get.

That could be debated. Right and left wing as terms have very littel real meaning. Stalin could be said to left wing in the extreme, however his regime was as Fascist and totalitarian as Nazi Germany, I would argue far more in fact.

Nonetheless, it's our fault, not the ideology.

We'll have to agree to disagree. At the end of the day if a plan doesn't take into account a variable and assumes variables to perform perfectly in a uniform way over a massive population, then it is flawed.

A perfect ideology would make allowances for human nature, or it is not based in reality.

[Haden]

For your information, he was a Nazi, rather a National Socialist.

Nazism is the most extreme form of fascism. Hitler was a fascist for lots of reasons will go through them in a bit if this debate carries on bit tired atm lol.

Hold on, lets put this into a little context here
http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/RUSnazipact.htm

Yep the British and French in the interwar period acted very badly and quite weakly to be honest. Britian viewed Germany as a buffer state to Russian agression. But yeh it doesnt make what I said about Stalin being self serving wrong he was a complete bastard when it came to foriegn policy probably becuase he was a complete bastard when he came to domestic policy. But yeh realistically thank god as he helped us loads but that doesnt mean I cant call him a self serving horrific bastard of a man.

Nonetheless, it's our fault, not the ideology.

Chicken or the egg i guess all I will say is human nature was around before communism was a speck in marxs eye and as I say the communist ideology in the manifesto is a massive force for division in society imo. Again I actaully have it and when im less tired I will pick out bits that stand out. It has loads of good stuff in it to though and the 19th century was a horrid time for lots of people that were in europe nevermind africa but yeh Im not gonna defend communism as a whole as anything that big goverment always ends up a disaster.

[Oxigen_Waste]

We'll have to agree to disagree. At the end of the day if a plan doesn't take into account a variable and assumes variables to perform perfectly in a uniform way over a massive population, then it is flawed.

A perfect ideology would make allowances for human nature, or it is not based in reality.

As the late Albert Einstein once said:
"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the the universe."

How can you make allowances for stupidity? You can't!!! We're too fucking stupid to do anything right, that's the problem! There is no "possible solution", there are "passable solutions", but never absolute solutions. And frankly, the one nearest perfection, as an ideology, is communism.


The same goes for Haden.

[uəʌəsʎɐɾ]

Human stupidity is a bit too broad to cover general human greed and selfishness, which surely is a larger factor in the inability to successfully implement Communism than mere stupidity?

Plus there's more than two things that are infinite :P *votes for unfair use of quote*

[Zechs Merquise]

Yep the British and French in the interwar period acted very badly and quite weakly to be honest. Britian viewed Germany as a buffer state to Russian agression. But yeh it doesnt make what I said about Stalin being self serving wrong he was a complete bastard when it came to foriegn policy probably becuase he was a complete bastard when he came to domestic policy. But yeh realistically thank god as he helped us loads but that doesnt mean I cant call him a self serving horrific bastard of a man.

I find it odd when people say Stalin saved us from Hitler.

Point one: Britain declared war on Germany

Point two: As much as Stalin may have exhausted the German war machine, Hitler exhausted the Soviet war machine, effectively Hitler and Stalin both saved Western Europe from each other.

[Oxigen_Waste]

Human stupidity is a bit too broad to cover general human greed and selfishness, which surely is a larger factor in the inability to successfully implement Communism than mere stupidity?

Plus there's more than two things that are infinite :P *votes for unfair use of quote*

Greed and selfishness come from stupidity. Duh.

[ReZourceman]

So whats communism, in one sentence?

[Oxigen_Waste]

So whats communism, in one sentence?

A party.:yay:

[Haden]

As the late Albert Einstein once said:
"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the the universe."

How can you make allowances for stupidity? You can't!!! We're too fucking stupid to do anything right, that's the problem! There is no "possible solution", there are "passable solutions", but never absolute solutions. And frankly, the one nearest perfection, as an ideology, is communism.


The same goes for Haden.

Being human are you calling yourself stupid or are you above the common guy?

I find it odd when people say Stalin saved us from Hitler.

Point one: Britain declared war on Germany

Point two: As much as Stalin may have exhausted the German war machine, Hitler exhausted the Soviet war machine, effectively Hitler and Stalin both saved Western Europe from each other.

Thats true I guess although the cold war changed things but then again without ww2 there would be no cold war. So hmm lol.

So whats communism, in one sentence?

A type of state born from a historical theorom that tried to solve class issues that arose in the 19th century and was put into practice and ultimatley failed in the 20th century.

[Meta_Omega]

So whats communism, in one sentence?

Accomplish the goals of Socialism through revolution.

[Oxigen_Waste]

Being human are you calling yourself stupid or are you above the common guy?

I am stupid. So are you. We all are.

[Kurtle Squad]

I believe in a certain amount of Money Communism.

Why should a footballer get more money than someone that works harder; or is more important to society?!

[Haden]

I am stupid. So are you. We all are.

By regonising your own stupitidy surely you can change it then? I mean thats pretty defeatist im stupid but hell im not gonna do anything about it but call everyone stupid just because some political theory didnt work out lol.

[Kurtle Squad]

I am stupid. So are you. We all are.

Which is why the country is run by morons who:

Have Illegal Immigrants as SECURITY GUARDS - Any of which could've been terrorists

Don't take control of public transport...making it more expensive than "car-ing".

Think "pay as you drive" could be a good idea....There's already the fuel, which acts as pay as you drive; though not area-wise, however, the systems will only cause more problems than solve.
Making public transport cheaper and more regular is the only way forward.

Are pussies when it comes to fighing so called "human rights".

Don't have proper sentances for criminals

By regonising your own stupitidy surely you can change it then? I mean thats pretty defeatist im stupid but hell im not gonna do anything about it but call everyone stupid just because some political theory didnt work out lol.

Actually; if you "watch" yourself every day, you'll realise that so many urges or beliefs conflict that it's impossible.

[Oxigen_Waste]

By regonising your own stupitidy surely you can change it then? I mean thats pretty defeatist im stupid but hell im not gonna do anything about it but call everyone stupid just because some political theory didnt work out lol.

Of course you can change... but you can never overcome it. You can get better at not being stupid, however, there will always be parts of you wich are stupid.What really proves that we ARE stupid no matter what is that no political theory ever works out. They all have a relative success.

[Meta_Omega]

Of course you can change... but you can never overcome it. You can get better at not being stupid, however, there will always be parts of you wich are stupid.What really proves that we ARE stupid no matter what is that no political theory ever works out. They all have a relative success.

Oxigen_Waste speaks the truth.

[Haden]

Hmm I see humanity has made lots of mistakes but there have also been a lot of good guys in history who have been anything but stupid. I feel its not possible just to whitewash humanity as stupid even though I sometimes feel like I agree with you lol.

As for the conflicts and urges things yeh that is really scary why we actually do stuff. But still agian possible to control I think. Maybe Im to much of an optomist I mean its kinda sad how u can predict humanitys pattenrs but there are individual 1 in 1000 men who make u smile and buck the trend.

[uəʌəsʎɐɾ]

Greed and selfishness come from stupidity. Duh.

From the rest of your messages, do you think humans are anything BUT stupid? What is your definition of stupid? If there is no intelligence but just stupidity, then doe stupidity itself exist :P?

Sorry but i just think saying "humans are stupid" is disregarding the individual. I think intelligence does little but dwindle with the more people you put in the room, but that does not mean there is not the potential or capacity for things to be different.

[Haden]

From the rest of your messages, do you think humans are anything BUT stupid? What is your definition of stupid? If there is no intelligence but just stupidity, then doe stupidity itself exist :P?

Sorry but i just think saying "humans are stupid" is disregarding the individual. I think intelligence does little but dwindle with the more people you put in the room, but that does not mean there is not the potential or capacity for things to be different.

thankyou. I was begenning to think i was alone on an emo forum. What is with the negativity how about less blanket statements a few more indvdual examinations. Look at history and see who doesnt fit with it thats usually a good clue as to who is the classic.

[Sheikah]

Precisely. This is isn't cloud cuckoo land because of human presence. Otherwise it would be. You said it all there. The ideology itself is absolutely flawless from every single point of view, but people aren't that perfect. We are flawed, hence, it can never work.

The ideology is flawed to begin with simply due to the fact it doesn't take into account human nature. The ideology may as well not exist.

[Oxigen_Waste]

Hmm I see humanity has made lots of mistakes but there have also been a lot of good guys in history who have been anything but stupid. I feel its not possible just to whitewash humanity as stupid even though I sometimes feel like I agree with you lol.

As for the conflicts and urges things yeh that is really scary why we actually do stuff. But still agian possible to control I think. Maybe Im to much of an optomist I mean its kinda sad how u can predict humanitys pattenrs but there are individual 1 in 1000 men who make u smile and buck the trend.

From the rest of your messages, do you think humans are anything BUT stupid? What is your definition of stupid? If there is no intelligence but just stupidity, then doe stupidity itself exist :P?

Sorry but i just think saying "humans are stupid" is disregarding the individual. I think intelligence does little but dwindle with the more people you put in the room, but that does not mean there is not the potential or capacity for things to be different.

Now, I'm not saying that everyone is stupid. All I'm saying is that collectively, we are stupid. There have been, as Haden pointed out, many people who were nothing short of genious, but the matter of fact is, that no matter how brilliant a life-plan we are given, as a race, we just fuck everything up and destroy every single chance of success that any individual crafted.
I believe none of us is truly stupid(there are some exceptions of course, but we all have some good in us), but the matter of fact is, as a whole, the human race tend to fuck everything up.

But yeah, we've many reasons to be proud of humanity. The problem is, there are 100 times more reasons to be ashamed of it.

The ideology is flawed to begin with simply due to the fact it doesn't take into account human nature. The ideology may as well not exist.

All ideologies fail to take into account human nature, because human nature ruins everything. There is no possible solution. Some work better than others, but there is no utopian solution.

[Haden]

Now, I'm not saying that everyone is stupid. All I'm saying is that collectively, we are stupid. There have been, as Haden pointed out, many people who were nothing short of genious, but the matter of fact is, that no matter how brilliant a life-plan we are given, as a race, we just fuck everything up and destroy every single chance of success that any individual crafted.
I believe none of us is truly stupid(there are some exceptions of course, but we all have some good in us), but the matter of fact is, as a whole, the human race tend to fuck everything up.

But yeah, we've many reasons to be proud of humanity. The problem is, there are 100 times more reasons to be ashamed of it.



All ideologies fail to take into account human nature, because human nature ruins everything. There is no possible solution. Some work better than others, but there is no utopian solution.

lol fair enough to be honest as a christiann yeh i agree with u there is not possible solution to humanitys woes.

[Zechs Merquise]

I believe in a certain amount of Money Communism.

Why should a footballer get more money than someone that works harder; or is more important to society?!

It's down to skills, and the need for those skills. We could all say the local bin man is important to us on an individual level than David Beckham, we could also say the bin man works harder.

The big difference is there are very few people with David Beckham's skill, hence he can charge more as he is a rare commodity. Sadly, if the bin man tried to charge that much he would be laughed at, as although he works hard, and although we all need him, he could be easily replaced.

It's the same argument with barristers and solicitors their work is VERY well paid, sometimes in excess of £300 an hour, but they are again being paid for two things - skills and expertise and the time they have invested to get those skills.

They train for years to attain the right qualifications, and need an economic renumeration for that investment, they are again (like footballers) in high demand as there are not many people whith those legal skills.

One of the fundamental reasons why communism failed was with everyone on the same or very similar wages why would anyone bother to be inventive or hardworking? A shelf stacker on the same as a barrister or an engineer? Who on earth would train and try so hard when for little effort they would recieve the same reward?

The ideology is flawed to begin with simply due to the fact it doesn't take into account human nature. The ideology may as well not exist.

Superbly summed up.

[Chuck]

One thing. Benny ftw. EL DUCHE

[uəʌəsʎɐɾ]

I often envision a small community where each individual has a respectable and necessary role for the whole to exist comfortably. I think part of the problem with 'humankind' is that we all feel vastly insignificant and unnecessary in teh grand scheme of things.

[Shorty]

I think you made a mistake in your poll, you accidentally had two 'yes' options. Boy, I bet you feel silly. Fixed it for you.

[Stalin]

I think you made a mistake in your poll, you accidentally had two 'yes' options. Boy, I bet you feel silly. Fixed it for you.
Sixteen people still think communism is a good idea ;)

[Meta_Omega]

Sixteen people still think communism is a good idea ;)

You know, polls don't say anything. It could happen that they are the only people in the world who think Communism is good. Or it could be that those 19 people are the only ones who think Communism is bad. You won't know, before you ask everybody.

[Oxigen_Waste]

You know, polls don't say anything. It could happen that they are the only people in the world who think Communism is good. Or it could be that those 19 people are the only ones who think Communism is bad. You won't know, before you ask everybody.

It would be fun to imagine, though... a world with only 16 communists. lol.