View Full Version : Xbox Live More Important than Wii...Says Molyneux
King_V
06-09-2007, 09:04 PM
Molyneux: Xbox Live More Important Than Wii
Lionhead honcho updates his opinion on Nintendo's innovative Wii Remote.
by Rob Burman, IGN UK
UK, September 6, 2007 - Lionhead founder Peter Molyneux has spoken out about Nintendo's motion-sensing Wii Remote, claiming it's not nearly as revolutionary as Microsoft's Xbox Live service.
Speaking to website Canal Juegos, Molyneux was asked what he thought about the current trend for motion-sensing controls. In response, the veteran UK developer said: "All I can say is that Microsoft is an incredibly smart company and I never fail to be impressed by just how clever they are."
He then added: "Don't forget this is the company which pioneered Live, which I believe will ultimately be far more impactful on video games in the long term than something like the Wii controller."
Admittedly, it's something of a change of tune for Molyneux, with the developer gushing over Nintendo's motion-sensing controller to G4TV back before Microsoft's acquisition of Lionhead, "It's not the hardware of the machine, it's not the speed of the machine, it's the fact that that device will enable games to be made unlike no other have ever been."
http://uk.xbox360.ign.com/articles/818/818181p1.html
...I remember a while ago when he was all over the Wii. Was it a Microsoft-issued pay cheque that changed his mind or is he on to something? Opinions please.
pedrocasilva
06-09-2007, 09:08 PM
He's delusional, that or his wallet is talking.
that said... It's PR, we've also had Nintendo saying (or almost saying) that online is not important when it is; point is.... he is going the extra mile here, and it just sounds stupid.
But... Online is important for the hardcore, specially in Xbox Live case where it's a paid service (yes, I'm aware of the silver membership), it hasn't got the Wiimote impact on popular culture, not even close, first and foremost Live isn't the only service of it's kind be it for PC be it for consoles.
jammy2211
06-09-2007, 09:09 PM
Money speaks louder then words.
Stefkov
06-09-2007, 09:10 PM
If microsoft is paying his wages then he'll say that most probably.
Depends, maybe he just thinkgs online play is more important than jumping around.
Sheikah
06-09-2007, 10:03 PM
Lionhead founder Peter Molyneux has spoken out about Nintendo's motion-sensing Wii Remote, claiming it's not nearly as revolutionary as Microsoft's Xbox Live service.
Xbox live doesn't do anything particularly new, plus you have to pay for it. I've used live a fair bit at my friend's, and to be honest I much prefer PC online gaming.
I suppose I lost respect for anything Lionhead have to say/do after the travesty that was B&W2. :sad:
Goron_3
06-09-2007, 10:07 PM
Well from a hardocore game stance, xbox live is a fantastic service, especially for a console.
Well from a hardocore game stance, xbox live is a fantastic service, especially for a console.
Well. For hardcore gamers that care about online.
I don't get what's so special about XBL...Isn't it just Xfire for consoles?
Dilli Gee
06-09-2007, 10:52 PM
Xbox Live itself isn't particularly revolutionary. It's content is though.
January should see a lot of changes. HD television shows and movies are going to change things around a bit.
chrizkerr2
06-09-2007, 10:53 PM
Isn't it just Xfire for consoles?
Pretty much sums it up.
Tyson
06-09-2007, 10:55 PM
I think the phrase we're all looking for is "end plug".
King_V
06-09-2007, 11:39 PM
He's delusional, that or his wallet is talking.
that said... It's PR, we've also had Nintendo saying (or almost saying) that online is not important when it is; point is.... he is going the extra mile here, and it just sounds stupid.
But... Online is important for the hardcore, specially in Xbox Live case where it's a paid service (yes, I'm aware of the silver membership), it hasn't got the Wiimote impact on popular culture, not even close, first and foremost Live isn't the only service of it's kind be it for PC be it for consoles.
In any case, Nintendo should step up their online services. Nothing can possibly beat playing a Nintendo game online. Imagine if Wii Sports was online...!
But whats Lionhead good for anyway? Their games are 'PC' in nature so buttering up the Xbox 360 seems natural...Just hate the way Molyneux gave props to the Wii as if he was going to support it.
pedrocasilva
06-09-2007, 11:42 PM
Xbox Live itself isn't particularly revolutionary. It's content is though.
January should see a lot of changes. HD television shows and movies are going to change things around a bit.You're saying the content is revolutionary but that content (coming January) isn't even games related, let alone making them better. Seems like Sony argument #56 to sell PS3's, except this time it's coming from Microsoft.
Hellfire
06-09-2007, 11:46 PM
Shut up and make Fable 2 not suck.
King_V
06-09-2007, 11:50 PM
You're saying the content is revolutionary but that content (coming January) isn't even games related, let alone making them better. Seems like Sony argument #56 to sell PS3's, except this time it's coming from Microsoft.
True.
But on the other hand, are weather forecasts and news broadcasts anymore games related? These days its all about convience. (sp...damn always get that word wrong).
pedrocasilva
07-09-2007, 12:26 AM
^ We are not saying they (Weather Forecast and News Broadcast) are revolutionary and as "impactful" as the motion sensing who is comparable to the d-pad and joystick, though.
Hence why he ends up sounding ridiculous.
Dilli Gee
07-09-2007, 01:00 AM
You're saying the content is revolutionary but that content (coming January) isn't even games related, let alone making them better. Seems like Sony argument #56 to sell PS3's, except this time it's coming from Microsoft.
Well, Live Arcade is games related.
Arcade is extremely popular, and a perfect stepping stone for new developers - more so than Wii, because its both Xbox 360 and Windows.
King_V
07-09-2007, 01:13 AM
Well, Live Arcade is games related.
Arcade is extremely popular, and a perfect stepping stone for new developers - more so than Wii, because its both Xbox 360 and Windows.
Hmm, its hard to say if the Wii (remote) really is revolutionary. I mean it definetly adds to certain aspects of gameplay, such as the accuracy you get when using the Bow in TP. But revolutionize gaming...I don't know. Arcades pretty much had this similar sort of technology some time ago.
pedrocasilva
07-09-2007, 01:25 AM
Well, Live Arcade is games related.
Arcade is extremely popular, and a perfect stepping stone for new developers - more so than Wii, because its both Xbox 360 and Windows.Problem is that... that stepping stone doesn't lead to a staircase that developer can climb easily, you're creating a wall since it's very dificult for those guys to rise into a "big" developer with the cost increases.
They could look at it as a stepping stone for Wii development but not X360 and PS3 SKU's.
So basically, if Live Arcade existed without Wii and after PS2's death... those developers would be even more screwed and condemned to do live arcade projects over and over. (not that it's easy to take the jump, but still)
I was replying to your quote though, where you referred TV broadcasts as a big inovation, or it come out like that for me, it isn't a innovation at all, for gaming.
Live Arcade... fair enough.
Colin
07-09-2007, 01:32 AM
MS pays his wages, so no surprise.
Then again though if you want to play real games, then yeh, he's right with Live being more important than the Wii.
Still, GTF back to making Fable 2.
pedrocasilva
07-09-2007, 02:12 AM
Then again though if you want to play real games, then yeh, he's right with Live being more important than the Wii.Wii as a market leader tends to pick up on the game line-up though, including for the hardcore, look at DS.
He's not saying more important though, he's saying it's more... revolutionary.
Maiky-NiSuTe
07-09-2007, 07:40 AM
what a tart why does he think so many people love the Wii60? the combo of both is making it the ultimate game console! so its not only live that does the trick. stupid "i can think only of one thing at a time" Molyneux. he will be eating those words soon as he did before on other occasions
Zechs Merquise
07-09-2007, 07:54 AM
What a total tosser. Online gaming is nothing revolutionary, XBOX Live does it very well and has set a very high bench mark for console online services (one that won't be matched anytime soon).
The Wii however has totally altered how we play games.
Molyneux is paid by Microsoft, that makes him talk rubbish.
Hero-of-Time
07-09-2007, 08:54 AM
Molyneux is paid by Microsoft, that makes him talk rubbish.
Agreed. I mean wasnt he excited by the Wii and planning making games for it until Microsoft bought him?
I lost all respect for him and his studio after the travesty that was Fable. He himself hyped the game upto no end and it just didnt deliver, pretty much what he is doing with Fable 2.
hobbzinio
07-09-2007, 09:00 AM
Fable was basically an amazing idea poorly executed
Strange Cookie
07-09-2007, 10:11 AM
It depends on what your vision of a great game it, methinks. Both the Wii-remote and Xbox Live are great steps forward for the gaming community. They both broaden the gaming experience. If you're focused on online capabilities, you're definitely right with Microsoft. If you're more interested in a new way of controlling the action on-screen, Nintendo will do just fine. Both have a lot of potential. For the time being, it just depends on the vision of the creator what to choose.
And yes: grain of salt. Never talk in the disfavour of the one who pays your bills. :wink:
Hellfire
07-09-2007, 06:19 PM
Fable was basically an amazing idea poorly executed
There was nothing amazing about the idea, anyone could say "I'm gonna make a game where you can do anything and go anywhere!". What would be amazing is pulling it off.
rokhed00
07-09-2007, 06:23 PM
Molyneux is a bit of a ****.
Still I play on Live more than I do Wii, let alone single player 360 games.
Must mean something.
Charlie
07-09-2007, 06:28 PM
Xbox live doesn't do anything particularly new, plus you have to pay for it. I've used live a fair bit at my friend's, and to be honest I much prefer PC online gaming.
You have to pay for the Wii Remote's too, remember?
Well. For hardcore gamers that care about online.
I don't get what's so special about XBL...Isn't it just Xfire for consoles?
Not at all. A friends list is part of it ofcourse, but there's a whole lot more than that. There's the Xbox Live Arcade where there are loads of great games which you would never see otherwise. Where do you think Nintendo got the idea for WiiWare from? There is a place where you can download demo's for hundreds of titles (for free). Not a demo available? Well the chances are there will be a video available for free, in High Definition. You can now download films and TV shows from it, in HD, and then watch it on your TV.
The thing you pay for is to actually play online using a great service, you really can't compare it to Nintendo's service at all. It's worth every penny. Everything I mentioned above (apart from the tv shows) is free to any Xbox user.
mcj metroid
07-09-2007, 06:42 PM
I actually really enjoyed fable.. there was a lot to do if you didn't rush through the game.
I actually really enjoyed fable.. there was a lot to do if you didn't rush through the game.
And if it didn't constantly crash your xbox...:mad:
Jamba
07-09-2007, 06:53 PM
The thing I'm actually enjoying most about XBL are the demos. I'm really glad that these are out there and I think that Nintendo are missing a major step by NOT putting these out there. But then again, making it happen would require their publishing department to actually do their job properly so...
Gizmo
07-09-2007, 07:34 PM
At the risk of being shot:
I think what he says has a bit of truth behind it. While the Wiimote is definately more "revolutionary" than XBL - it changes games completely - the quote is:
" will ultimately be far more impactful on video games in the long term than something like the Wii controller."
Do you really see the Xbox3, PS4 and Wii2 all having these Wiimote controllers? I don't. Do you see them all having XBL levels of online? I do.
Speedfreak
08-09-2007, 12:43 AM
At the risk of being shot:
I think what he says has a bit of truth behind it. While the Wiimote is definately more "revolutionary" than XBL - it changes games completely - the quote is:
Do you really see the Xbox3, PS4 and Wii2 all having these Wiimote controllers? I don't. Do you see them all having XBL levels of online? I do.
Wii is the best selling console ever purely because the controller. If you honestly think Sony and Microsoft won't want a peice of that pie next gen you're insane.
Hellfire
08-09-2007, 12:51 AM
At the risk of being shot:
I think what he says has a bit of truth behind it. While the Wiimote is definately more "revolutionary" than XBL - it changes games completely - the quote is:
Do you really see the Xbox3, PS4 and Wii2 all having these Wiimote controllers? I don't. Do you see them all having XBL levels of online? I do.
I see them having both. Not in the shape of a remote, that was just chosen to appeal to those scared by controllers, but I don't doubt every controller in the future will have gyros, two parts and pointing/spatial positioning abilites. Also, online systems will become more and more robust.
Where do you think Nintendo got the idea for WiiWare from?
From the SNES.
Sheikah
08-09-2007, 02:09 AM
You have to pay for the Wii Remote's too, remember?
Umm, well obviously. I'm just saying that given one is a virtual service, not exactly a physical product, it doesn't necessary have to incur a cost (given DS and PS3 online don't).
And yeh, regarding revolutionary, XBL really isn't. I've been through the features of Live and PSN a lot- PSN actually isn't all that far behind Live (contrary to what people say). Demos, exclusive games, additional game content, downloadable trailers and smooth running online games. Buddy lists too. It just needs to properly incorporate buddy lists globally to catch up a little with Live.
If you think about the PC, you can download demos, trailers, additional game content (mods) message friends, speak over mic all anyway, while playing a game, without paying £40 a year to a company to do so.
Just my 2 cents anywho. :p
Hero-of-Time
08-09-2007, 10:57 AM
Not at all. A friends list is part of it ofcourse, but there's a whole lot more than that. There's the Xbox Live Arcade where there are loads of great games which you would never see otherwise. Where do you think Nintendo got the idea for WiiWare from? There is a place where you can download demo's for hundreds of titles (for free). Not a demo available? Well the chances are there will be a video available for free, in High Definition. You can now download films and TV shows from it, in HD, and then watch it on your TV.
The thing you pay for is to actually play online using a great service, you really can't compare it to Nintendo's service at all. It's worth every penny. Everything I mentioned above (apart from the tv shows) is free to any Xbox user.
Well said.
The thing I'm actually enjoying most about XBL are the demos. I'm really glad that these are out there and I think that Nintendo are missing a major step by NOT putting these out there. But then again, making it happen would require their publishing department to actually do their job properly so...
The thing is with Nintendo they have always been very secretive about their own games so giving us demos would be a total change of character for them. Then again they could do what XBL does at E3, give us videos of the games there and demos that the others are playing at the actual event.
Well said.
Yea, but isn't this all about the video game part, not the other bits? The only thing XBLA did new (video game related) for consoles was bring downloadable demos to it, so you don't need to buy magazines for demos.
Mundi
08-09-2007, 11:07 AM
If you think about the PC, you can download demos, trailers, additional game content (mods) message friends, speak over mic all anyway, while playing a game, without paying £40 a year to a company to do so.
Just my 2 cents anywho. :p
When did the internet become free?
Last time i checked you have to pay for it to be able to use it
When did the internet become free?
Last time i checked you have to pay for it to be able to use it
These days it comes free with some TV packages (and the TV packages are no more expensive than they used to be without the internet).
Hero-of-Time
08-09-2007, 11:12 AM
Yea, but isn't this all about the video game part, not the other bits? The only thing XBLA did new (video game related) for consoles was bring downloadable demos to it, so you don't need to buy magazines for demos.
True but having demos, videos and XBLA games at your disposal, aswell as a fantastic online gaming service, for £30-40 a year is a great service. Microsoft have set the bench mark for online gaming and it still has yet to be bettered, even Sony are trying their best to mimic it.
Both the Live and Wiimote technology are great for gaming and if the 2 came together then you would pretty much be set.
Zechs Merquise
08-09-2007, 11:27 AM
There was nothing amazing about the idea, anyone could say "I'm gonna make a game where you can do anything and go anywhere!". What would be amazing is pulling it off.
:bowdown: Quoted for truth, an amazing idea is one that no one else has ever had.
From the SNES.
Again, quoted for truth, people forget the first online gaming witha console was back with the SNES. Downloadable Zelda levels with a online scoreboard to show who had clocked them first? Now that was revolutionary back then.
You have to pay for the Wii Remote's too, remember?
Yes, but you don;t have to pay a monthly subscription, you buy one and it's yours. With XBOX Live once you've paid for your console the costs just keep mounting if you want to join in with the online stuff.
My thoughts on XBOX Live are that it is highly polished, very well done, but ultimately it's merely evolutionary. It's just an extension and polishing of what we've seen with PCs and even what was available back on the SNES.
The Wii is REVOLUTIONARY - it changes the way we play games and the way that developers think adding a more immersive experience than previously possible.
That Guy
08-09-2007, 11:30 AM
Of course it isn't. Wii is outselling Xbox 360 and is expanding the market. Therefore it's having a bigger impact on the games industry.
As much as I love Xbox 360 (and Xbox Live) I'd actually argue that Microsoft is a fairly stupid company, what with the decision to sell a console without a hard drive, the hardware problems they've had, and of course still charging £40 a year for Live when the PSN does it for free and I believe on dedicated servers.
Sheikah
08-09-2007, 12:46 PM
When did the internet become free?
Last time i checked you have to pay for it to be able to use it
Then you may as well exclude that from this little debate, since you'll be paying for the internet for both XBL and PC use.
Either way I was sort of right, you can do all the things I listed for free, meaning no additional cost on top of the (obvious) monthly charge for using the internet.
Again, quoted for truth, people forget the first online gaming witha console was back with the SNES. Downloadable Zelda levels with a online scoreboard to show who had clocked them first? Now that was revolutionary back then.
Not just remakes of NES games released in either full or episodic content form (with stuff like streaming voice acting), but whole new games.
Oh, and the Sega Genesis had a service similar, too. It included free demos and the ability to purchase retail games and download them.
c0Zm1c
08-09-2007, 03:19 PM
people forget the first online gaming witha console was back with the SNES.
The NES, according to this article (http://www.n-sider.com/articleview.php?articleid=258).
Dilli Gee
08-09-2007, 03:30 PM
Yea, but isn't this all about the video game part, not the other bits? The only thing XBLA did new (video game related) for consoles was bring downloadable demos to it, so you don't need to buy magazines for demos.
It also pretty much brought continuous arcade gaming to the home console.
Mundi
08-09-2007, 03:37 PM
Then you may as well exclude that from this little debate, since you'll be paying for the internet for both XBL and PC use.
Either way I was sort of right, you can do all the things I listed for free, meaning no additional cost on top of the (obvious) monthly charge for using the internet.
The only thing you pay for with Xbox Live is to be able to play against other players with Live.
Everything else is free
It also pretty much brought continuous arcade gaming to the home console.
I have no idea what that is supposed to mean.
And as I posted after, it wasn't actually the first for downloadable demos on a console.
Gizmo
08-09-2007, 04:34 PM
The Wii is REVOLUTIONARY - it changes the way we play games and the way that developers think adding a more immersive experience than previously possible.
I can't be bothered to break down most of this thread, but I'd just like to quickly point out that this is not what Molyneux is saying. He already previously stated that he loves the Wiimote, it's revolutionary, it changes the way we play. But he also said that to him, XBL will have a more important effect in future. You're arguing against nothing, here.
As a good friend once said (in a voice slowed for dramatic effect): R-E-A-D-I-N-G C-O-M-P-R-E-H-E-N-S-I-O-N
King_V
08-09-2007, 04:38 PM
At the risk of being shot:
I think what he says has a bit of truth behind it. While the Wiimote is definately more "revolutionary" than XBL - it changes games completely - the quote is:
Do you really see the Xbox3, PS4 and Wii2 all having these Wiimote controllers? I don't. Do you see them all having XBL levels of online? I do.
I agree. Motion-sensing and the like isn't always necessary in all games. The Wii-Remote; while it certainly adds to some gaming experiences, it also detracts from a few - hence the creation of the classic controller and the continued use of Gamecube controllers.
Sheikah
08-09-2007, 04:38 PM
The only thing you pay for with Xbox Live is to be able to play against other players with Live.
Everything else is free
In that case, 40 quid for playing online only seems a bit harsh. If the whole package came for that it'd make more sense.
But heh, if the rest is free then all the better I suppose.
pedrocasilva
08-09-2007, 04:41 PM
I can't be bothered to break down most of this thread, but I'd just like to quickly point out that this is not what Molyneux is saying. He already previously stated that he loves the Wiimote, it's revolutionary, it changes the way we play. But he also said that to him, XBL will have a more important effect in future. You're arguing against nothing, here.
As a good friend once said (in a voice slowed for dramatic effect): R-E-A-D-I-N-G C-O-M-P-R-E-H-E-N-S-I-O-NMost of us see it as a cheap change of sides/opinions/views; he stated he liked the wiimote a long time ago and before working with Microsoft, he didn't re-estate that here (on the contrary, since he devalued it), he said something like "who needs Wiimote, I have Xbox Live who is more impactful" and for me... it really isn't; neither it is for the masses in the sense that the effect Wiimote had on the pop culture is impossible to ignore; and even if people say "no I don't see next gen with this controller as a standard" I see lots of market for inovation coming because of the fact it was successful, even if they invent a better method and make it standard, the reason they implemented it and hell, perhaps even the reason why they invested in it... it's because Wiimote; it's a door it opened. If not, I bet next gen would still be dual analog+rumble; and I don't think it will/should.
Then again... like you said, it's reading comprehension and I think it goes both ways. I already commented on this issue and I'm not changing my mind, I read it like I did and took the conclusions I did.
I can't be bothered to break down most of this thread, but I'd just like to quickly point out that this is not what Molyneux is saying. He already previously stated that he loves the Wiimote, it's revolutionary, it changes the way we play. But he also said that to him, XBL will have a more important effect in future. You're arguing against nothing, here.
Last time I checked, something that is revolutionary is something that has a big/important effect on the future...
Hellfire
08-09-2007, 04:52 PM
The only thing you pay for with Xbox Live is to be able to play against other players with Live.
Everything else is free
So the only thing you pay is the actual point of online gaming- online gaming.
Fantastic.
Hero-of-Time
08-09-2007, 04:54 PM
Last time I checked, something that is revolutionary is something that has a big/important effect on the future...
In a way Live is this. Like I said earlier it has set the benchmark for the online side of gaming and I cant see anyone coming close to it in a long while.
Hellfire
08-09-2007, 04:56 PM
In a way Live is this. Like I said earlier it has set the benchmark for the online side of gaming and I cant see anyone coming close to it in a long while.
In a way. It has done things that Sattellaview did for the SNES and things 64DD did in Japan and was supposed to do. It also did what the PC already did years ago. What they really accomplished and hats off to them, is bringing it to the "masses". However, console online-gaming won't really take off unless it's free.
AshMat
08-09-2007, 04:57 PM
Is this guy high or something?
I wouldn't call Live innovative, it's an online service, yeah you get some cool shit through it and you get to do some cooler shit over it, but it's not as innovative as the Wii controller.
Though like some of you said it's made an impact, which definitely stands for something.
Hero-of-Time
08-09-2007, 04:59 PM
In a way. It has done things that Sattellaview did for the SNES and things 64DD did in Japan and was supposed to do. It also did what the PC already did years ago. What they really accomplished and hats off to them, is bringing it to the "masses". However, console online-gaming won't really take off unless it's free.
Your right in that they did bring it to the masses but the figures for Live are very impressive especially considering you have to pay. To be fair though I mean whats £30-40 a year for an outstanding service? Its really neither here nor there.
I hate being without Live when im on my 360. Even when I dont play on Live I like to see what my mates are playing on and I enjoy banter while I playing a single player game using the headset or even by send them a message.
King_V
08-09-2007, 05:01 PM
In a way. It has done things that Sattellaview did for the SNES and things 64DD did in Japan and was supposed to do. It also did what the PC already did years ago. What they really accomplished and hats off to them, is bringing it to the "masses". However, console online-gaming won't really take off unless it's free.
I don't see it being free for a long time coming, but XBL makes subscription easier and a years subscription for 30-40 pounds is a bargain. The service is tight with a lot more content than the Wii's free service could ever hope to match. Kudos where its due, can't really slate Live for not being free.
I mean, if you're willing to pay for Wii Points solely to buy older games, then a 40 pound subscription for a year is nothing.
Hero-of-Time
08-09-2007, 05:04 PM
I don't see it being free for a long time coming, but XBL makes subscription easier and a years subscription for 30-40 pounds is a bargain. The service is tight with a lot more content than the Wii's free service could ever hope to match. Kudos where its due, can't really slate Live for not being free.
Agreed.
Saying that though Im quite happy with Nintendo sticking to what they do best and thats keeping their single player games strong and solid while keeping their local multiplayer games fun as hell.
ShadowV7
08-09-2007, 05:04 PM
The thing is with Nintendo they have always been very secretive about their own games so giving us demos would be a total change of character for them. Then again they could do what XBL does at E3, give us videos of the games there and demos that the others are playing at the actual event.
At an E3 they said we could download Wii and DS demos (Where's out monthly DS demos Nintendo) so it felt like we would had 'E3 in the comfort of your own home'.
Demos would really push software sales,if I got to play DS demos i'd be more likely to buy DS games.Same with Wii cause there's games i'm unsure about and would rather test them first.
King_V
08-09-2007, 05:08 PM
Same with Wii cause there's games i'm unsure about and would rather test them first.
Unfortunately, that is what I think Nintendo are afraid of. Nintendo really stake their lives on the games their make especially for home consoles. Imagine Nintendo offering a demo for a game like Pokemon battle Revolution! :shakehead
Hellfire
08-09-2007, 05:26 PM
I don't see it being free for a long time coming, but XBL makes subscription easier and a years subscription for 30-40 pounds is a bargain. The service is tight with a lot more content than the Wii's free service could ever hope to match. Kudos where its due, can't really slate Live for not being free.
I mean, if you're willing to pay for Wii Points solely to buy older games, then a 40 pound subscription for a year is nothing.
Yeah I agree, it's not much, it's probably worth the money. But it's still a subcription, not a one time thing, it's very different. Subscribing to something is a serious choice and one that can't be taken that lightly.
And,as you say the Wii service is FREE so you can't really expect the same content as you get from Microsoft, which is the biggest company in the world and has years and years of experience with online. And remember, very few people (percentually) used live in the first X-Xbox, so they didn't succeed right at the beggining.
I agree that X-Box Live is a benchmark though, but even when I get a 360 I know I probably won't be able to afford paying Live and lots of people are the same way. I don't think that it'll be a long time until such services are free.
Sheikah
08-09-2007, 05:38 PM
I suppose £40 isn't too bad, unless you think of the 360 having a 5 year life or so, in which case the total cost to keep playing online would be £200. That does make me sit up a little.
Your right in that they did bring it to the masses but the figures for Live are very impressive especially considering you have to pay.
I thought Microsoft's figures include people who have used the 3 month trial...
Hero-of-Time
08-09-2007, 09:20 PM
I thought Microsoft's figures include people who have used the 3 month trial...
Havent a clue. Despite what the figures are XBL is a fantastic service and all those who have a 360 and use the service are sure to agree.
Haver
09-09-2007, 10:20 AM
He's right, though, and he makes great games. I enjoy waving my shit around cleaning up for Mrs. Weasley as much as the next muggle, but digital delivery is going to be the backbone of our industry pretty soon.
He's right, though, and he makes great games. I enjoy waving my shit around cleaning up for Mrs. Weasley as much as the next muggle, but digital delivery is going to be the backbone of our industry pretty soon.
One good game.
Yes, digital delivery will be the future but Sega and Nintendo did it earlier, and Sony have a few full retail games that can be delivered digitally, so in that respect Sony have done it better. They just don't have quite as much content yet.
c0Zm1c
09-09-2007, 10:39 AM
I'd say more than one, but I'm including games like Magic Carpet and Dungeon Keeper from his Bullfrog days. Populous was supposed to be good too, but I never played that.
Inspite of what many might say I like Black & White too. Fable is my favourite though. :)
Zechs Merquise
09-09-2007, 10:51 AM
Agreed.
Saying that though Im quite happy with Nintendo sticking to what they do best and thats keeping their single player games strong and solid while keeping their local multiplayer games fun as hell.
Interesting you said that, because I love single player quests, I've never really got into online gaming, besides the original C&C (which I was ranked in the top 20 at woooo lol). I think the focus toward online gaming may actually alienate the casual pcik up and play gamer.
Hero-of-Time
09-09-2007, 12:20 PM
Interesting you said that, because I love single player quests, I've never really got into online gaming, besides the original C&C (which I was ranked in the top 20 at woooo lol). I think the focus toward online gaming may actually alienate the casual pcik up and play gamer.
I agree that online gaming is a hardcore gamers thing. I mean the amount of abuse hurled at you on Live when you beat someone is just stupid, its so competitive. I never really have time for online gaming much as I have so many games that I want to get through. The lads on here always play Gears of War or Rainbow Six but I very rarely join in. IMO you cant beat a great single player game that totally takes over your life :)
*points at various Zelda, Mario and Metroid games*
I agree that online gaming is a hardcore gamers thing. I mean the amount of abuse hurled at you on Live when you beat someone is just stupid, its so competitive. I never really have time for online gaming much as I have so many games that I want to get through. The lads on here always play Gears of War or Rainbow Six but I very rarely join in. IMO you cant beat a great single player game that totally takes over your life :)
*points at various Zelda, Mario and Metroid games*
Plus, online pales massively in comparison to local multiplayer.
mcj metroid
09-09-2007, 01:51 PM
I can barely believe someone is comparing the 2. This is desperate.
Charlie
09-09-2007, 02:04 PM
Umm, well obviously. I'm just saying that given one is a virtual service, not exactly a physical product, it doesn't necessary have to incur a cost (given DS and PS3 online don't).
Bearing in mind the online service for both the Wii and DS is essentially non-existant. I would much rather pay for a good service than get a bad, free one.
These days it comes free with some TV packages (and the TV packages are no more expensive than they used to be without the internet).
Yeah, 'free'.
Plus, online pales massively in comparison to local multiplayer.
If you've got a microphone and talkative team-mates its great. Sure, it's not as good as local multiplayer. But in a sense, it's cheaper. You only need one controller. You can do it whenever yo uwant without having to have friends round. No split-screen.
Plus, online pales massively in comparison to local multiplayer.
If you've got a microphone and talkative team-mates its great. Sure, it's not as good as local multiplayer. But in a sense, it's cheaper. You only need one controller. You can do it whenever yo uwant without having to have friends round. No split-screen.
Hellfire
09-09-2007, 02:23 PM
Bearing in mind the online service for both the Wii and DS is essentially non-existant. I would much rather pay for a good service than get a bad, free one.
I am and always was of the opinion that Nintendo's online can't be compared with MS, but that isn't exactly a valid argument, since what online gaming really is for is to play online and you have to pay to play online with 360 and not with
DS/Wii. Sure, you don't get trailers, demos and whatnot, and the friendcode system is a hassle, but at least, you can play online when you want without having to fork out any extra money.
AshMat
09-09-2007, 02:32 PM
But on the Wii/DS you can barely talk to the other people, and not at all in-game. It's just like playing against the AI but with more hassle and longer loading.
MadDog
09-09-2007, 02:45 PM
I think that this is stupid
Only 1 man has said that and whats the big deal man......
Everyone has an opinion??
Zechs Merquise
09-09-2007, 02:54 PM
I agree that online gaming is a hardcore gamers thing. I mean the amount of abuse hurled at you on Live when you beat someone is just stupid, its so competitive. I never really have time for online gaming much as I have so many games that I want to get through. The lads on here always play Gears of War or Rainbow Six but I very rarely join in. IMO you cant beat a great single player game that totally takes over your life :)
*points at various Zelda, Mario and Metroid games*
Wow, you get abuse for winning?
Plus, online pales massively in comparison to local multiplayer.
I agree, I used to love playing C&C over a lan with 4 sat in the same room. And when it comes to FPS, in my opinion you still can't beat Goldeneye. That was soooo sweet. And multiplayer rocked.
McMad
09-09-2007, 03:07 PM
And when it comes to FPS, in my opinion you still can't beat Goldeneye. That was soooo sweet. And multiplayer rocked.
Counter Strike owns Goldeneye in the face, sure the game did FPS multiplayer first but so many games do it better these days.
Hellfire
09-09-2007, 03:19 PM
Counter Strike owns Goldeneye in the face, sure the game did FPS multiplayer first but so many games do it better these days.
Meh CS hasn't been fun for years. And they're pretty different. I have to admit though, the biggest fun I've ever had with multiplayer FPS was Perfect Dark.
McMad
09-09-2007, 03:24 PM
Meh CS hasn't been fun for years. And they're pretty different. I have to admit though, the biggest fun I've ever had with multiplayer FPS was Perfect Dark.
How has Counter Strike suddenly become not fun then?
Hellfire
09-09-2007, 04:01 PM
How has Counter Strike suddenly become not fun then?
Beats me, I just stopped liking it after 1.3. I play ocasionally, but I just don't enjoy it a lot.
McMad
09-09-2007, 04:06 PM
Beats me, I just stopped liking it after 1.3. I play ocasionally, but I just don't enjoy it a lot.
Well I'm talking about Counter Strike Source, and whether your just playing CTs versus Ts, Gungame, Deathmatch, Zombie or a Funmap the game is always awesome.
Dilli Gee
09-09-2007, 05:28 PM
Wow, you get abuse for winning?
There are four different zones on Live:
- Recreation - casual gamers
- Family - child friendly
- Professional - hardcore gamers
- Underground - anything goes...
Only Underground permits abusive behaviour. If you swear/attack anyone in any of the other zones, you are removed from the game.
Hero-of-Time
09-09-2007, 05:38 PM
That aint the case at all Dilli. I havent a clue why they have that thing next to your gamercard as I have Recreation as mine and a while back I got abuse from a yank due to my higher than average Gamerscore. He even went to the trouble of sending me a PM and voice message hurling more abuse at me. I love beating yanks :)
Dilli Gee
09-09-2007, 05:46 PM
Report him then.
Hero-of-Time
09-09-2007, 05:47 PM
It was a while back and I couldnt care or less about what some random yank thinks about me :)
c0Zm1c
09-09-2007, 06:21 PM
It's a pity the system can't monitor your behaviour online and automatically assign you to the zone that best suits you.
Charlie
09-09-2007, 06:31 PM
Wow, you get abuse for winning?
I agree, I used to love playing C&C over a lan with 4 sat in the same room. And when it comes to FPS, in my opinion you still can't beat Goldeneye. That was soooo sweet. And multiplayer rocked.
I had the 'pleasure' of playing Goldeneye while I was waiting at the hospital last week. I had to turn it off after 5 minutes because it was ruining what I think of the game as for me.
It's a pity the system can't monitor your behaviour online and automatically assign you to the zone that best suits you.
The zone really doesn't make a difference. It's a good idea in theory, but loads of people don't care about it and I don't even know if it matches you up with people in your own zone or not. The only game I really play online is Halo 2. Best online experience I've ever had. Probably best gaming experience I've ever had too.
Maiky-NiSuTe
09-09-2007, 07:38 PM
so let the truth set you free!!
Emasher
09-09-2007, 07:52 PM
I don't care what some idiot thinks about the wii remote. I only care that the Wii remote is the greatest controller in gaming history.
How can you compare a controller to an online service? What categories is the judging done in?
D-Day
09-09-2007, 08:35 PM
I don't care what some idiot thinks about the wii remote. I only care that the Wii remote is the greatest controller in gaming history.
How can you compare a controller to an online service? What categories is the judging done in?
Which judging category... that is a great question, but whatever. I agree with you, I don't really care what he says at this point, as online implementation in terms of what can be offered to the consumer has been around for a long time, with a steady build on what we can get out of it.
Live is a great service, regardless of the fact you have to pay money for it or not, but how can it be claimed to be more important than something that has taken a a larger leap in terms of what we had in gaming?
The importance of online gaming has been realised by plenty of companies and people before the ball really got rolling with live... so even if this guy believes that Live is more important than the Wii-mote, as its just one version of an online service, we've had them in the past and will have more in the future, so Live will only go down as a chapter in online gaming.
The Wii-mote on the otherhand is the first 'real' crack at motion sensing as it is the primary control type, not and add on or something additional. I mean, Sony were oppertunists with this once they found out about the Wii-mote (although the six-axis isn't really up to par), and it shows you the potential 'importance'. And it will go down as the beginning of this new way to play, in a monumental role, and something even greater if it is seriously implemented in the future.
OK, a bit too much there (and I wanted to write more :heh:) but you can see my stance.
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