Developer Fanboyism

[LazyBoy]

Hey everybody
So I was looking round IGN and found this video, which is basically a roundtable of sorts, with comments on the Revolution, and I thought you guys should see it.:
http://media.cube.ign.com/articles/661/661405/vids_1.html
(If posted before feel free to remove)

Okay look, I have as much intention of buying XBox 360 as I do PS3 or the Rev, if not more so, but those two guys sitting the middle, if not screwing each other are screwing the 360. This is one of the worst cases of developer fanboyism I have ever seen. It really is quite sickening.

Let me give you an example. The quite center left claims that the one thing that makes video games better is graphics that improve with each generation. So by his logic a current-gen game like The Hulk or James Bond: Agent under Fire is better than a classic like Super Mario Brothers 3? I ain't buying it.

The way he just dismiss' the revolution controller is just wrong, and I hope to God that other developers are more open-minded.

Just had to get that of my chest.

[clearacell]

yeah I saw this earlier. It's funny how this guy laughs at the Revolution controller yet he's never used it before.

[LazyBoy]

Yeh, he didn't even know that games had been announced for the revolution. Both of them didn't know what they were saying.

[monkeyDluffy]

these kind of people are fickle, if the rev comes out and is a big success then they'll be "best idea ever", if it flops "told ya so", they'll lick any arse put infront of them as long as they get pounds in their pockets!

EDIT:

Is it just me or is that guy a dodgy salesman for microsoft he couldn't have talked about it more, it was like QVC trying to sell a dodgy gold effect 20 inch thick chain, I don't want to buy!!!

[BigTac]

This just goes to show how some companies like Epic think. It's just sounds so stupid for a supposed true game developer to say that graphics is everything.
And another reason why I don't understand why companies like EA get so much hate.

[Gaijin von Snikbah]

The games I play the most today, are WoW and Counter-Strike. I dont play those games because they have uber realistic graphics, I play them because they have great gameplay. Graphics is an empty shell. Gameplay is soul. The graphics wear off after a while.

Sure, graphics can give you a very fun and exciting experience. But its not gonna make you buy a game. Not today or tomorrow.

[LazyBoy]

Is it just me or is that guy a dodgy salesman for microsoft he couldn't have talked about it more, it was like QVC trying to sell a dodgy gold effect 20 inch thick chain, I don't want to buy!!!

Yeah, it was just the fact that he was carrying it with him, ready to pull it out at any moment. What a tool.

Just watched it again, and he goes on about how you can't build a business like Nintendo do, by getting Gamecube owners to stand up, and its like, HELLO, they're making the most money. So maybe he should think again before lecturing Nintendo on business model - ass.

[Pit-Jr]

That guy is the epitome of most gamers in America. Too macho and image-conscious to give Nintendo a chance. I can already see it now, if a game doesnt use the Unreal engine over here, its gonna be considered rubbish.
Even with this mentality though, i still think the Rev., on looks alone, will do far far better than the Gamecube did.

[King_Mushroom]

I dont mind it if people tastes stray from Nintendo, but when people make snide jokey remarks about them i get so angry. I seriously wana go ocarina of time on there ass and cut them up with the bigoran sword.

[tandeh]

the fat guy in the middle was the epitome of nerdiness, gayness and "oh look at me i'm a big timer".

a stark contrast to japanese developers who look beyond massive payouts from sony or microsoft.

If Nintendo wins Japan, it will have a good chance of making it big in the US.

[tandeh]

i hope nintendo cracks america and makes that fat guy beg for a sdk.

[Britprog]

Mark Rein Vice President of Epic Games says that games in the next generation will be “all about the graphics,” and that Nintendo fans are in for “crappy, cheap, I-wish-I-hadn’t-bought-it gimmicks” on Revolution.

Where is his proof on this statement, has he played with the remote, has he seen any games. Are Nintendo known for making crappy, cheap, I-wish-I-hadn’t-bought-it gimmicks. HELL NO!!!

I think he's gonna have to eat his words big time when he sees Mario 128 and Metriod Prime 3.

[Shyguy]

The games I play the most today, are WoW #

exacly the same here. tbh cs dose have quite shit gfx compared to FPS's nowadays but CS source has nothing on CS 1.6 just because i get a better feel while kicking peoples asses on it :) also Bloodscalp on WoW for the win :)

(been playing 2 days and lvl 15)

[clearacell]

http://webpages.charter.net/clearacell/howmangcowners.gif

Matt, save us!

[Kurtle Squad]

Such extreme Fanboys should have their testicles painfully removed, by pulling them off with string.

[Shenlong]

http://webpages.charter.net/clearacell/howmangcowners.gif

Matt, save us!

Is that actually proper dialogue, cos thats funny shit, i'd feel dumb if i was him.

[The3rdChildren]

I see plenty of fanboyism developing in here, that's for sure.

[LazyBoy]

Saying graphics will be an important issue next generation and not seeing Nintendo's Revolution 'revolutionize' automatically makes you an extreme fanboy?

Not at all. Instantly dismissing the Revolution before we've seen its offerings, and clinging to and flogging the 360 at a Revolution roundtable, that makes him a fanboy.

If he went out there and stated his opinion on the Revolution, backing up his opinion with facts and theories, in an educated and respectable manor than I would accept his view point, hell might even agree with him. But the amount of bias out there is apparent to anyone who has watched the video.

Oh and nice video clearcacelll, made me chuckle.

[Kurtle Squad]

Yeah. There is DEFINATLY A LOT of 'trying to sell graphics' going on there. He's like Burnout's great because of graphics. It's THE most imporant thing. But wasn't Micro Machines and Micro Maniacs great and Mario Kart?!?! I thought even MK: DD had pretty rubbish graphics, it doesn't mean I'm less emmersed, for a start, the music drags me in quite a bit, and simply the fun factor. FUN!!!

Onto Quotes from them:

"We can have incredible graphics, and we can have, like, lifelike. The racing games are ridiculous now."

Although, it's not what he meant, I agree fully. Racing games are ridiculous now. They try and be lifelike, and yet, you can COLLECT slipstream air to cause boosts and such?!?! Sound like they're edging more towards Mario Kart to me, meaning they're adding more than JUST graphics.

And also, doesn't the Revolution controller put you more in the game?! It's not just graphics. When has anything been close to using '3D space' in that kind of way?? It's like an upgraded mouse.

Shoot for a game that's going to make 40,million dollars back?! But surely you wouldn't need to get that much back if you didn't spend so much time developing games with such hight graphics?!?!

[EchoDesiato]

http://webpages.charter.net/clearacell/howmangcowners.gif

Matt, save us!

Haha! :hehe:
Graphical improvement is nice, but the gameplay is what really makes a game. We're at a point where graphical improvement is starting to be visible in little details, we'll never have the jump from N64 graphics to Cube graphics.That guy probably makes crap games.

[Kurtle Squad]

I do agree that there will be gimmicky games though. BUT, There will also be loads of great games. i.e. I don't think Nintendo will release SSB will awful controls etc or make it feel gimmicky, they look at the different gameplay aspects of their games. As the bigger guy in green suggested.
Just look at Mario Kart DS. There's like no touch screen usage there, they're keeping what makes games great, and adding onto them to make them better.

The mega fanboy there says that it must be good enough to play FPSs JUST because they sold more on the XBox than the PC ever did....But isn't the XBox more mainstream than a PC for playing games?!! So that's pretty obvious that it would. I for one don't buy too many games for my PC due to the fact that there's too much faffing around with tech specs for games for one.
And how is the Revolution not like a GREAT mouse?!?!
And if ribbed sticks hurt his thumb like that, he must be playing wrong

[system_error]

Rein did not even tried the controller whereas all developers who tried it are also quite optimistic about it. So I guess Epic is just afraid because all they do is making GFX engines.

[xanikseo]

I feel like slapping some sense into the guy left-middle.

The interviewer asks what the guy thinks about the Nintendo Revo controller and FPS and he just gets out the Xbox 360 controller and says, there's nothing wrong with it. OF COURSE THERE'S NOTHING WRONG WITH IT, BUT IS IT NEXT-GEN, IS IT NEW?! NO I DON'T THINK SO! IT'S BEHIND THE ****ING TIMES!

And before that he says there'll be loads of gimmick crap on the Revo, because the games are gonna all be about the controller. He's got the wrong end of the stick. The whole point of the controll is that you'll improve the games there are, like FPS, so it's easier to controll. If there are games made because of the controller, who says they won't be fun. And he says graphics is utmost important, it isn't, the game has to be FUN! I don't care if there is only one big pixel on the screen as long as the game is fun.

Nintendo is gonna release a controller type slot in anyway:

This image is fake but the slot in type thing will look somat like this
http://img356.imageshack.us/img356/572/revocontrollermockup7hv.jpg

[kav82]

I think the best way to calm everybody down and show that this guy doesn't know what he's talking about is by reading this again:

Returning to TGS’s showflow after playing the demos is a faintly surreal process. Suddenly, the 360 looks incredibly old-fashioned. Picking up a DualShock for a quick play of Rogue Galaxy seems preposterous

[Schpickles]

His comments are slightly hotheaded though. The fact the he calls EA and Activision incompetent, reckons that graphics is everything in next-gen, claims that all you need to do to be successful is make great games :indeed: as well as the laying into the rev controller, sparks more of someone who's rather revelling in the fact that just about every next-gen developer seems to have licensed their tech, rather than someone with a passion for games of all types who knows the industry from the top down and the bottom up.

Hopefully Nintendo will send him a complementary gold one, when metroid prime using the controller scores accolades and sells millions... it'd be nice :)

[Athriller]

He's just peeved that he's fat.

[Pyxis]

Yeah, what a pig! He is such a fool and spent the entire time shamelessly advertising the Xbox. These people want to pretend that Nintendo doesnt exist.

[Hal_9Million]

His judgements are based on speculation only. Considering that Epic concentrate on shooters, it's surprising the controller doesn't interest him. Nintendo are always going on about how good it'll be for FPS games, and people who've had a go with the controller have played a modded Metroid Prime, and they all say that it's really good, and far easier and more accurate to use than 2 thumbsticks. I don't know whether this guy has had a go with the controller or not, but I would guess not.

Another bit of speculating he does is that the Revolution is going to be inferior in graphical power. I'm sorry, but despite the new controller being so amazingly cool, I highly doubt people will buy the Revolution unless it has good graphics too. He's probably looked at the size of it and decided it must be inferior due to size, but the Gamecube was the smallest console when it came out, and it's power was very close to the Xbox's. Nintendo have never ruled out graphics they've simply said that they aren't the be all and end all. They've also claimed that Revolution will be able to compete graphically with both 360 and PS3.

Other reasons I can suspect his comments are like this are because Epic are making Gears of War for Xbox 360, and they're being payed loads by Microsoft to say shite about the rivals, maybe. Also, Epic must be making a lot of money by distributing their new Unreal Engine 3 to other developers, and that is currently one of the best graphics engines available. So it would make sense for him to promote graphics over anything else. But to assume Revolution won't have good graphics based on the controller etc. is stupid.

What's even stranger is the fact that he thinks that graphics are still the way forward. It's already been proven that graphics aren't working anymore in Japan, so it can't be much longer before it's obvious in the West. The slump in sales in Japan is due to lack of innovation in games, because all developers want to do is make the same games, but prettier. That just doesn't sell. If you look at the past, then you'll see that gaming has always had growth due to innovation. 2D - 3D gave growth, Analogue control gave growth, And "Gimmicky" peripherals like eye-toy and dancemats also gave growth. Nintendogs, one of the most different and gimmickey titles on the market has quite obviously created growth, as have many other obscure DS games like brain training. In fact, the gimmickey games have been the reason for the majority of DS sales. So looking at how the gimmickey DS is faring next to the graphics hungry PSP, I don't think it's fair to say graphics are the way forward when quite clearly, that isn't proving true.

Like I said earlier, he's just having a good time financially, and therefore is advertising his game "Gears of War", advertising the platform "Xbox 360" and advertising his development tool "Unreal Engine 3". I'm sure, given the chance to play the Revolution, and/or see it's graphical capabilites, his comments may change. But now I'm speculating, because I've never played or seen the Revolution in action, but I'm not saying that it will have great graphics, I'm saying it should do based on word of mouth from Nintendo themselves. People have always criticised Nintendo's innovation, but then they've always been proven wrong. Analogue sticks, touch screen, and now freehand.

Bloody hell, that was a proper essay, pitty I can't do the same thing with the work that actually matters.

[UPDATE]

I've just been watching the video, and it's deffinately like that guy has been payed by someone to slate the Revolution controller. His comments are incredibley childish, and some of his reasons are stupid. He said that the analogue stick add-on will make your thumb ache. I don't know what kind of strange hands he's got, but that is the same as the Gamecube alalogue stick, and I've never had problems. Then he asks how many people in the audience own just a Gamecube, and then says "thats less than 10 percent, hard to make a business on less than 10 percent".

What a complete tool! Has he ever looked at a little thing called statisics? Microsoft have a larger protion of the market, yet they've never made any money from the Xbox. The trueth would be to say that they've made a LOSS! Sony have made a proffit, but it's still tiny compared to their market share. Then you look at Nintendo, and they make the most proffit compared to market share. I call that good business. Microsoft and Sony sell more, and make more money, but at the end of the day, they waste it on over-expensive games. By being careful with their money and developing cheaper games more innovative games, Nintendo have a greater proffit.

So unless Xbox 360 makes a proffit, I can see Micro$oft leaving the industry first. Nintendo is always going to last because they make proffit, Microsoft don't and now neither do Sony. This guy's going to be surprised in 10 years.

Also, for anyone who hasn't watched it yet, he pulls out of his bag both an Xbox 360 development kit, and an xbox 360 controller. This just makes me believe that he's advertising for Microsoft even more.

If I was the guy on the far right, I would have nailed that guy to a wall with my comments. But I liked at the end when they were asked which games they are looking forward to most, the guy on the far right said Smash Bros Revolution ONLINE, and then got a bigger cheer than when the other guys said Gears of War and Oblivion. Also I liked how he said that he used to look forward to Perfect Dark Zero, but not anymore. I could go on about that, but that's another story. If you read Edge's article on X05, and their comments about Perfect Dark Zero, that's the same as my opinion.

[Jordan]

OH DEAR GOD, PARAGRAPHS
My eyes! my eyes!!

[King_Mushroom]

^^^ Very true.

I just dont see how anyone with half an imagination cant think of the great gameplay possibilities with the controller.
As long as its ultra easy to be 'real-world-accurate' your imagination can run totally wild. And we all know nintendo is the best of the three to make certain of good hardware quality control.

Anyway who cares, how is he gona resist picking up his mates rev controller - i mean comon! everybody in the world is going to be totally enticed when they see others waving it around with HUGE grins.

[YenRug]

I laughed when I heard his comment, "this next generation is all about the graphics!" Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't that what they said about the current generation of consoles?

[Pit-Jr]

He's probably looked at the size of it and decided it must be inferior due to size, but the Gamecube was the smallest console when it came out, and it's power was very close to the Xbox's.

That should be a seprate thread, that whole argument bugs me. The GC and the XBox were released about 3 days apart here in the US. The graphics are on par and in some cases better on the GC, so the whole size thing is moot. The Rev is small because it doesnt have 7 controller ports and 39 usb ports and other filler that we supposedly need.

[Shaze_Nab]

Shocking how the guys who brought you such innovasion like this;

Unreal
Unreal II: The Awakening
Unreal Tournament
Unreal Tournament 2003
Unreal Tournament 2004
Unreal Tournament 2007
Unreal Championship
Unreal Championship 2: The Liandri Conflict

Would reject something like the revolution...

[Hal_9Million]

That should be a seprate thread, that whole argument bugs me. The GC and the XBox were released about 3 days apart here in the US. The graphics are on par and in some cases better on the GC, so the whole size thing is moot. The Rev is small because it doesnt have 7 controller ports and 39 usb ports and other filler that we supposedly need.

And it doesn't have a Hard-drive either. Nintendo consoles are always small because they're designed to be games consoles. Sony are making a Blu-Ray media player, and Microsoft are making a scaled down PC. This is why they are sooo friggin huge! And to think that the 360 also has that massive power adapter is even funnier. From what I hear about Nintendo's new development techniques (cupe-mapping etc.) It sounds like they are actually trying to find new ways to make games also. The current method of making fancy graphics is just making development get more expensive. OK I'm rambling on about off-topic stuff now, so I'll stop now.

[Britprog]

I still haven't watched this video yet but it looks like it might be a laugh, will download it when I get home.

[DiemetriX]

[qutoe] Does anybody know what my Avatar is??? [/quote] myamotos signature?


I read that the ps3 is bigger that the xbox and we know it. Can any one back this up?
I know 360 is "smaler" :)

[monkeyDluffy]

well with the coverage of his comments, he got what he wanted publicity for 360 and his 360 game, no shock that he loves 360, he'll love whatever he gets paid for!

[Britprog]

[qutoe] Does anybody know what my Avatar is??? myamotos signature?


I read that the ps3 is bigger that the xbox and we know it. Can any one back this up?
I know 360 is "smaler" :)[/QUOTE]

Good man, DiemertiX wins a cuddly bear ;) ;)

[Rico]

At heart i think everyone is a fanboy, whether slightly or greatly, and these developers just prove it. Come on guys there must be one console you secretly want to be the best :p

[DCK]

The guy does have a point, sort of. I think especially in Europe the majority will think the same way as him. We'll still have to see if the Revolution can't match the 360 though, so his statement is pretty pointless anyway. The Rev should be able to run Unreal Engine 3.0 no problem if ported.

[The fish]

Why the hell is he lugging a 360 round in a bag. I would have laughed myself to death if he dropped it. Just because Epic dont have develpment systems dosent mean no one else have (they nearly all do). The thing about HD is who cares about a few pixels u can only really see if u are a completely retarded nerd (like Mark Rein).

None of them seem to have heard of the controller shell for the Rev controller WHICH LETS U PLAY MULTIFORMAT GAMES! Arseholes

The exeption to that is Matt Cassamasina, who was on fire in the last minute. Mark Rein will be sitting in a corner crying why we all play online smash bros.

[djamb3]

The guy does have a point, sort of. I think especially in Europe the majority will think the same way as him. We'll still have to see if the Revolution can't match the 360 though, so his statement is pretty pointless anyway. The Rev should be able to run Unreal Engine 3.0 no problem if ported.


I agree that rev could support easily Unreal engine, however the main problem here is that Ninty didn't want that, so they just get stupid and started to say a lot of stupid things..... :sad:

[system_error]

LOL. I can't stop laughing - this whole video was some sort of a 360 promo show. Why didn't Matt stop "Epic" Mark from advertising? After all it seems the other guys weren't allowed to say anything and neither did Matt. Come on sure we don't know much about the Revolution so far but I am sure that developers know nearly everything.

Sure Epic needs superb graphics otherwise they could not sell the Unreal 3 engine - so far I am a bit astonished that anyone would take Rein serious because if it is only about better graphics I rather play interactive movies. Man I wish some other developers react - maybe EA or Activision which could feel a bit insulted by Reins statements.

[Jamba]

What I can't believe is how unprofessional Mark Rein is.

This guy is the Vice President of a pretty high end games company he should be able to be more diplomatic about what he says.

Also I find it disturbing that he makes the equivalent of a buisiness decision (not wanting to have anything to do with Nintendo or the Rev) without any grasp of the facts. He hasn't even touched the controller! What a Microfacist!

[Sarka]

Good read Hal! Very fun.

Wow, just watching the video and boy I would just smack those guys a new one. They sound like people at my school, which is very bad.

"Xbox 360 games look 100x better than Xbox 1 games, even without HDTV" What? Many reports are saying it's a quite a small upgrade in graphics.

[Hero-of-Time]

I have just watched this vid. I downloaded it when it first came up here but I forgot to watch it. The guy who is dissing the Nintendo Controller is a total loser. He hasnt even tried the machine and he spouts out rubbish facts and completely dismisses it.

I hope Ninty prove him wrong.

[MunKy]

At the end of the day while he is making yet another unreal clone for 360, other developers will be pushing the boundries on Revolution. I havent bought a single FPS game since Turok 2 (Metroid Prime 1 & 2 dont count) because there is nothing different now then there was back then. FPS is a stale genre. Epic and Mark Rein can take theyre outdated take on gaming to the graveyard along with 360.