You can help ban Scientology now

[Sanchez]

Crossposted from SA


NEW! petition to prevent religious status for Scientology, this petition has been accepted on the official UK government web site!

Click HERE to goto #10 Downing Street petition page

" James Higgs in UK has created a petition to Tony Blair, the British Prime Minister to prevent Scientology becoming accepted as a religion in the UK. The petition has been accepted, and is live on the Number 10 Downing Street website for people to sign.

We the undersigned petition the Prime Minister to Refuse any application submitted by the ‘Church’ of Scientology for recognition as a Religious Organisation. "

Nota Bene: You must be a RESIDENT of The UK to sign this

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Added - And there is another Official Petition to BAN Scientology!
HERE http://petitions.pm.gov.uk/scientologyban/
Sign this one too!

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This posting presented by the
Ex-members of Scientology at
Lermanet.com Exposing the CON

[martinist]

yeay! i signed, now i just hope that scientology doesn't find out *shudder*

[blender]

they will take your name and disconnect your head

[DCK]

Damn, I don't live in the UK.

Somebody please sign it for me.

[blender]

There are 2 petitions to sign.
http://petitions.pm.gov.uk/-Scientology/
http://petitions.pm.gov.uk/scientologyban/
the first post link does not work.

[Cube]

Can we ban all the other religions while we are at it?

[ShadowV7]

Signed it.I'm with Cube aswell :heh:

[Stefkov]

Banning all religions would be heaven.

I'll sign it, just to see the look on Tom Cruises face :heh: (it is him isnt it?)

[Monopolyman]

I hate Scientology as much as the next guy, but as far as I'm aware, there is nothing in the scientology text that breaks any human rights, and I agree with the statement that everyone has the right to follow in what ever they want, so no.

[mike-zim]

why do we have the right to ban this? it is the choice of the individual to do as they like.

Next we will be banning christianity in the UK (never muslim though that wouldn't be politically correct)

[Haden]

Can we ban all the other religions while we are at it?

Wow ok comrade Stalin. Sierously you can't start whining about religions persecutions past present etc and then just make statements like that. I bet you dislike people knocking on your door and telling you about religion then could you please stop being a atheist aggressor! Damn I was trying to think of something akin to Bible Basher, my alliteration skills failed. Sierously though statements like the above are just wrong in lots of ways.

Back on the point no don't ban scientology. Argue with it, debate with it. Man alive this is a free country you can't just ban stuff people fought long and hard for these freedoms. If this religion is so illogical which I agree it is lets have a debate and expose it rather than just banning it man alive.

Rant over ;)

[The fish]

Can we ban all the other religions while we are at it?

QFT. (I bet you never saw that coming from me, did you?)

Banning all religions is a bit extreme, but there should definitly be a separation of church and state, and church and education.

[Haden]

QFT. (I bet you never saw that coming from me, did you?)

Banning all religions is a bit extreme, but there should definitly be a separation of church and state, and church and education.

Completley agree about seperation of Church and State, people should bte informed of religions neutrally in RE though.

This is completley different to banning religions though, one is found in liberal democracies the other in Communist dictatorships.

[Zell]

We're not banning the practice of scientology, we're just saying it can't be deemed a religion. Although I'm up for the idea of banning religions, the world would be a better place.

[The fish]

Completley agree about seperation of Church and State, people should bte informed of religions neutrally in RE though.

Of course. What I meant is that the church should not influence what is taught in, say, science. *looks at Emmanuel Collage*

[Fields]

Although I'm up for the idea of banning religions, the world would be a better place.
How would that be so? And how would you 'ban' religion anyway?

[The fish]

How would that be so? And how would you 'ban' religion anyway?

How many wars have been started due to reasons other than religious-based one?

[Zell]

I don't think it would be possible to just ban religion. It would be like banning sex. But I do think there is a small possibility that over the next 100 years religion could just fade out.

So many bad things stem from religion. All the terrorists justify themselves because it's "holy war" and Allah said it was okay. There have been wars over the past 2000 years because of religious hatred. Millions die in Africa because some guy in Rome says that using condoms is a sin. I'm not saying religion is entirely bad, but a strong set of moral beliefs is all you need to live a good life, and you don't need to be religious to have morals.

[The fish]

I'm not saying religion is entirely bad, but a strong set of moral beliefs is all you need to live a good life, and you don't need to be religious to have morals.

Actually, religion is not a good source of morals. Look at the Old Testament. Look at Moses: he commanded the killing of hundreds, if not thousands, of people, who's only crime was to believe in another god.
Look at Abraham: his story is a perfect example of child abuse, two cases of power abuse in an asymmetrical power sharing relationship, carrying a knife in public, and killing animals for reasons other than food.

In fact, surely it is morally better to behave for the good of humanity than to behave to get yourself into heaven. :indeed:

[Mundi]

How many wars have been started due to reasons other than religious-based one?

I think the right sentence is: How many wars have been started in the name of religion but are really about expanding some empire´s power....

[The fish]

I think the right sentence is: How many wars have been started in the name of religion but are really about expanding some empire´s power....

OK then: "apart from for financial gain, how many wars have been started due to reasons other than religion?"
Happy now?

[Haden]

OK then: "apart from for financial gain, how many wars have been started due to reasons other than religion?"
Happy now?

Ok better run to my exam reaaal soon will answer your more complex moral points first but here goes.

Personal antagonism Countless
Revolutionary powers vs unrevolutionary powers French revolution
Illgetimacy Persian vs Byzantine wars under Heraclius
Order vs Disorder French intervention in Spain 1823
Different ideologies Cold war WW2
Nationalism WW1 Italian wars against Austria
Failing domestic policy distraction Charles X expitidtion into Algeria 1830
Breaking status quo German British rivalry leading up to WW1

That was off the top of my head when I get back from exam I will go more in depth if you want but real relgious wars. And I mean wars just for the sake of religion rather than any other reasons and no finacial gain are incredibly rare. You name me a war that you think was soley to do with religion and I may be able to point to other factsors. I say may as Medieval isnt my strong point but if you went to Byzantine era which is ore religious anyway everytime I would have an answer I reckon. Now theres an open challenge hehe ;)

Ok gotta dash!

[gaggle64]

I can only think of a couple of conflicts that have been waged over largely religious principles. Most wars over the last few hundred years have all seem to be either imperial conquest, the result of rival power blocks or fought across the battle lines of strictly political ideologies.

[Dan Dare]

For the record, this is not banning Scientology. This is denying Scientology relious status under the regulations of the charity organisation.

Perfectly legit claim, considering it's a batshit fucking crazy cult started by a crazy bastard.

[DCK]

Wow ok comrade Stalin. Sierously you can't start whining about religions persecutions past present etc and then just make statements like that. I bet you dislike people knocking on your door and telling you about religion then could you please stop being a atheist aggressor! Damn I was trying to think of something akin to Bible Basher, my alliteration skills failed. Sierously though statements like the above are just wrong in lots of ways.Calm down, no need to be a victim right away. 'Banning of religions' is really different than 'religion persecutions'. Cube was obviously exaggerating, but it's just some people's opinion that religions do more bad than they do good.
Back on the point no don't ban scientology. Argue with it, debate with it. Man alive this is a free country you can't just ban stuff people fought long and hard for these freedoms. If this religion is so illogical which I agree it is lets have a debate and expose it rather than just banning it man alive.
Scientology should be banned for the same reasons as drug use is banned. As a religion it makes less sense than most others, but the problem is that as it's a small group, it is really likely to absorb its members into itself - there's a great amount of brainwashing going on in it. It isn't just a religion in the sense that it offers sets of beliefs, it and its community force those beliefs upon you. If you take just a bit of it, it sucks you up and will seriously mess you up.

[The fish]

Ok better run to my exam reaaal soon will answer your more complex moral points first but here goes.

Personal antagonism Countless
Revolutionary powers vs unrevolutionary powers French revolution
Illgetimacy Persian vs Byzantine wars under Heraclius
Order vs Disorder French intervention in Spain 1823
Different ideologies Cold war WW2
Nationalism WW1 Italian wars against Austria
Failing domestic policy distraction Charles X expitidtion into Algeria 1830
Breaking status quo German British rivalry leading up to WW1

Touche...:indeed:

Oh, and good luck in your exam!:heh:

For the record, this is not banning Scientology. This is denying Scientology religous status under the regulations of the charity organisation.

Perfectly legit claim, considering it's a batshit fucking crazy cult started by a crazy bastard.

Why doesn't atheism get this status?
Surly the world's second/third largest belief group (depending on how you look at it) should get it too?
Also, Ron Hubbard (the founder of Scientology) has since said that it's all made up.
Which perfectly demonstrates why it's both ape-shit crazy and bat-fuck insane.

[rokhed00]

Signed, I'm anti religion all round, but starting a religion on the word of some burned out scifi writer is the pinacle of needlessness.

[Haden]

Calm down, no need to be a victim right away. 'Banning of religions' is really different than 'religion persecutions'. Cube was obviously exaggerating, but it's just some people's opinion that religions do more bad than they do good.
Scientology should be banned for the same reasons as drug use is banned. As a religion it makes less sense than most others, but the problem is that as it's a small group, it is really likely to absorb its members into itself - there's a great amount of brainwashing going on in it. It isn't just a religion in the sense that it offers sets of beliefs, it and its community force those beliefs upon you. If you take just a bit of it, it sucks you up and will seriously mess you up.

How do you ban a religion without persecuting people?

Touche...

Oh, and good luck in your exam!

Hehe thanks I had to talk about the church in it! Some of the laws were mental. Sorry I didnt mean to kinda be over the top with that list it just kinda frustrates me when people say religion causes all wars because if you really look at them it hardly ever does.

Anyway back to tom cruise! :smile:

[DCK]

How do you ban a religion without persecuting people?Not by going back to medieval witch hunting anyway. 'Banning' in this case should start with removing any authority religion has established.

[4q2]

What power/authority has religion established in the west ?
I have never really been ruled by it and the closest I get to it these days is with threads like these.

I hate religion, but comments about banning it is going down the route of stating that a person should not have their right to believe.
As with the drugs comment....We have been down this avenue before (Myself via an agree to disagree basis on factual evidence....one could argue the brainwashing has been done via goverment sponsored 'drug education'). Not every person who touches them turns into a brainwashed mindless zombie destined for an early grave.
Does every person who has a beer turn into an alcoholic ?
I presume most Christians dont turn all fire and brimstone in the same sense.

[Kurtle Squad]

I hate Scientology as much as the next guy, but as far as I'm aware, there is nothing in the scientology text that breaks any human rights, and I agree with the statement that everyone has the right to follow in what ever they want, so no.

Extreme Brainwashing isnt against human rights?:wtf::hmm:

Oh yeah, they also harrass (sp?) people and all sorts

What power/authority has religion established in the west ?
I have never really been ruled by it and the closest I get to it these days is with threads like these.
A lot, and, yes you are.


I hate religion, but comments about banning it is going down the route of stating that a person should not have their right to believe.
As with the drugs comment....We have been down this avenue before (Myself via an agree to disagree basis on factual evidence....one could argue the brainwashing has been done via goverment sponsored 'drug education'). Not every person who touches them turns into a brainwashed mindless zombie destined for an early grave.
Does every person who has a beer turn into an alcoholic ?
I presume most Christians dont turn all fire and brimstone in the same sense.
You do realise it's a cult, dangerous, blah blah blah.
People believe in a lot of things, you know, like the Holocaust, or do you think Hitler was fine in thinking all was well.....Didnt think so...

[Shino]

I just don't get it, why should this be consider a religion? Why not Jedi?

[Rummy]

I do not want this cult to be recognised or even associated with religion, and so I have signed it. Scientology is terrible from what I've seen of their own practitioners' actions, and a farce.

[4q2]

A lot, and, yes you are.



Nice vague answer....
Now please point out where and how.

I get up in the morning as I have done for almost 34 years, dont have to pray to any religion. It does not figure in any part of my daily activities.
I am not imprisoned or persecuted for refusing to turn up at church each week in my sunday best to worship.
I can be considered blasphemous on most days and I have not suffered one iota...Therefore I am not ruled by or made to follow any religion.
I dont count the Queen 'owning' her government and being the head of the COE a valid point either.

Where is the religion that rules me ? (Worship of the mighty pub beerpump isnt a valid point either even though Stella can be quite an unforgiving goddess).

You do realise it's a cult, dangerous, blah blah blah.
People believe in a lot of things, you know, like the Holocaust, or do you think Hitler was fine in thinking all was well.....Didnt think so...
Scientology has never been a religion as stated, But I dont agree with the whole all religions banned thing...People should have their freedom to think and believe, but I do find them scientologists funny...Fuck em.
I'm intelligent enough to not get involved even if Tom Cruise isnt.
As far as my thoughts on Hitler goes....I wont even start.
That is a whole new can of worms I could open debate wise

[Haden]

Not by going back to medieval witch hunting anyway. 'Banning' in this case should start with removing any authority religion has established.

What do you mean by removing authority?

[eel]

Banning all religions would be heaven.
(it is him isnt it?)

Lol. :heh:

[Mundi]

What do you mean by removing authority?

I think he´s meaning it as in: Cut off a snakes heads to kill the body.
Bur forgets the part where the snake grows a more "extreme" head

[McPhee]

How many wars have been started due to reasons other than religious-based one?

Has there ever been a religious war? I got the impression they were all about furthering the power of men than defending the honour of the Gods

Religion, when used correctly, does a lot of good in the world. Its people trying to exploit religion that causes the problems

On the Scientology front; i don't really care if it does become a religion. I don't believe in it and therefore it doesn't affect me

[Shino]

Has there ever been a religious war? I got the impression they were all about furthering the power of men than defending the honour of the Gods

Religion, when used correctly, does a lot of good in the world. Its people trying to exploit religion that causes the problems

Has there ever been any religious good? I thought we helped other people because they need help, not because it expands a belief system, and if we do it to achieve that, we're just helping those with power using religion as a weapon.

I think both you and I are correct, so I suppose we can assume that religion is no longer needed.

On the Scientology front; i don't really care if it does become a religion. I don't believe in it and therefore it doesn't affect me

I don't know how it works there, but here religions have some benefits, as lower taxes on their infrastructure and such.

[Ryan]

Done and done. Thanks very much :)

[Twozzok]

1. The Digg Link Here (http://digg.com/politics/Stop_Scientology_becoming_a_religion_in_the_UK_Gov ernment_Petition)

2. A another crosspost which I think explains quite a bit (at least the links do)


Everything they do is to contain, surround, erect totems to warn people off, and lie to prevent public understanding that it is a naziesque (http://www.lermanet.com/scientology-and-occult/) moneygrubbing scam (http://www.lermanet.com/LRonHubbard2.htm) that chews up innocents (http://www.lisamcpherson.org/) and spits out dead bodies (http://www.whyaretheydead.net/), lawsuits (http://www.lermanet.com/scientologylegal/main.html),psychopaths (http://www.lermanet.com/tomgorman/jeffreyquiros.htm) and criminals (http://www.slatkinfraud.com/index.php).


3. Yet another good post.

Why are people still making the "it's like any other religion" argument? Stop. It's retarded. Other religions do not:

-Have an exact monetary value for salvation
-Hire PR firms in order to defend themselves from regular journalistic investigation
-Make people sign billion year contracts
-Promise magic powers
-Disconnect people from families
-Claim cheap lie detectors can be used to determine how unhappy you are
-Advocate the genocide of an entire profession
-Claim vitamins can cure mental illness

And the ones who do share one or more of those traits are considered cults or very extreme.

[DCK]

What do you mean by removing authority?
Governments view religion as a means of seperation, there are Christian schools, Islamic schools; banning of religious attributes such as veils or kippahs is not allowed; and there are governments with Christian parties that actually feel the state should believe in God. Governments should become 100% atheistic. Religion should be compromised to private practice and not a public affair.

I admit that 'banning' of religion is something that is near impossible, but it's something that the world should strive to.

[Haden]

Governments view religion as a means of seperation, there are Christian schools, Islamic schools; banning of religious attributes such as veils or kippahs is not allowed; and there are governments with Christian parties that actually feel the state should believe in God. Governments should become 100% atheistic. Religion should be compromised to private practice and not a public affair.

I admit that 'banning' of religion is something that is near impossible, but it's something that the world should strive to.

100% atheistic? 100% liberal neutral would be much more advisable.

[triforce_keeper]

I have never heard of Scientology

Anyone care to explain?

[DCK]

100% atheistic? 100% liberal neutral would be much more advisable.Sorry, wrong wording. You're right, they should be neutral and not regard any beliefs as special. In fact, they shouldn't regard them at all.

[martinist]

I have never heard of Scientology

Anyone care to explain?

an organization made of pure evil (and Tom Cruse)

[Twozzok]

I have never heard of Scientology

Anyone care to explain?

Read some of what I posted above, gives a general Idea :p

[The fish]

100% atheistic? 100% liberal neutral would be much more advisable.

I second that!
How about adding "Secular" to that?

[4q2]

Governments should become 100% atheistic. Religion should be compromised to private practice and not a public affair.
I admit that 'banning' of religion is something that is near impossible, but it's something that the world should strive to.

In a perfect world Governments should be a lot of things, but the fact is we the people vote for the showers of shite in power (Unless you are of the Illuminati / Masons / Bildeburg / Skull and Bones conspiracy David Icke frame of mind type in which case we are all cattle powerless to control our own destinies).

Religion will not die any time soon due to certain people needing reason for their very existence and until someone can put some reason or solid science to it all everybodies beliefs here are no better than any other individuals.

[Haden]

I second that!
How about adding "Secular" to that?

Hmm almost certianly, I think all religions should be taught to allow freedom of thought, if that fits in secular then that should be fine.

[The fish]

Hmm almost certianly, I think all religions should be taught to allow freedom of thought, if that fits in secular then that should be fine.

All people should be allowed to think what they want, just as others should be allowed to question their opinions.
The "it's my religion" trump card is something I have had it up to here with..:mad:

In my own opinion, everyone should be allowed to think and do as they wish as long is it does not harm or impede others.

In fact, they shouldn't regard them at all.

I agree with you, but at the same time I don't...:hmm:

On second thoughts, I do agree with you: people should be exempt from, say, conscription because they genuinely think whatever the war at the time is evil, as apposed to, say, because they're parents are Quakers.

Again, we see the religion trump card.