Road Pricing Petition

[Nintenchris]

Im not sure if anyone has posted this yet

http://petitions.pm.gov.uk/traveltax/

Its the petition to stop those greedy gits robbing every last penny motorists have by charging you to use the roads as and when you use them.

[Patch]

Signed it a couple of weeks ago.

It's currently 1.6 million people and counting, receiving quite a boost thanks to a lot of media coverage lately (including last night's Top Gear).

[Oli1983uk]

I have signed this and read in the news yesterday Tony Blair will be sending an email to everyone on the list to explain why he thinks we need this system put in place.

[Tellyn]

But the thing is, we don't. They already charge enough for energy and petrol and taxes.

[Nintenchris]

Oh i forgot to say if your gonna sign it, do it today as the deadline to sign up is the 20th of February... yes thats tomorrow.

[Charlie]

I signed it, I doubt it will do anything though.

[Mr. Bananagrabber]

Done and done.

[ShadowV7]

As if they need another reason to suck money out of us.If he does send that e-mail of his,if possible just send one back replying why we think the system doesn't need to be put in place.

[Domstercool]

Signed up, hardly sign petitions though. This one does have a huge backing and the idea of tracking is bloody crap.

[Platty]

I signed this a few days ago when I first heard about it. What a joke it truely is.

[MoogleViper]

Signed this.

http://img201.imageshack.us/img201/9844/cruelnamesf0.jpg

Some parents are just so cruel with names.

[Blackfox]

Hmm, my opinions on this are mixed. Its all very well and charging people for journeys to clear the roads - but people still have to use them, and its not like public transport is cheap and effecient. I think I'll sign it..

[Ashley]

I have signed this and read in the news yesterday Tony Blair will be sending an email to everyone on the list to explain why he thinks we need this system put in place.

Interesting, as it states: "Your email will not be published". Dirty Tony Blair using dirty tactics to get emails. Tut tut.

[demonmike04]

Signed this.

http://img201.imageshack.us/img201/9844/cruelnamesf0.jpg

Some parents are just so cruel with names.

Heh, i lol'd at that.

I really should of signed this if it would of made any difference, im interested in driving (well its becoming a requirement for life pretty much), and being 17 i should of signed it.

[Cube]

By the time I get a provisional license, the whole system will probably be totally different anyway.

[Fields]

Maybe I'm being a bit controversial here, but is the proposed road pricing not fairer than the current road tax system? It seems much fairer to charge people depending on how travelling they do as opposed to charging everyone a flat rate.

[Flaight]

Maybe I'm being a bit controversial here, but is the proposed road pricing not fairer than the current road tax system? It seems much fairer to charge people depending on how travelling they do as opposed to charging everyone a flat rate.I've got mixed feelings about this too. With the typical money raising schemes we see here and there, it's easy to put it in the same bag and slag it off. Yet, logically it seems to make sense to me. How much you pay for it more accurately reflects how much you use it... that sounds frighteningly reasonable.

[Cube]

Maybe I'm being a bit controversial here, but is the proposed road pricing not fairer than the current road tax system? It seems much fairer to charge people depending on how travelling they do as opposed to charging everyone a flat rate.

TBH, I don't think thats the main problem. I think people are worried about how the government will enforce it, and privacy.

[4q2]

They have to put in some sort of back up plan for when taxes are lost on ciggies and possibly beer. Cars seem like a fair place to start for the next "dirty and polluting my space" habit....

[Charlie]

Well Mr Blair has replied to it...



Thank you for taking the time to register your views about road pricing on the Downing Street website.

This petition was posted shortly before we published the Eddington Study, an independent review of Britain's transport network. This study set out long-term challenges and options for our transport network.

It made clear that congestion is a major problem to which there is no easy answer. One aspect of the study was highlighting how road pricing could provide a solution to these problems and that advances in technology put these plans within our reach. Of course it would be ten years or more before any national scheme was technologically, never mind politically, feasible.

That is the backdrop to this issue. As my response makes clear, this is not about imposing "stealth taxes" or introducing "Big Brother" surveillance. This is a complex subject, which cannot be resolved without a thorough investigation of all the options, combined with a full and frank debate about the choices we face at a local and national level. That's why I hope this detailed response will address your concerns and set out how we intend to take this issue forward. I see this email as the beginning, not the end of the debate, and the links below provide an opportunity for you to take it further.

But let me be clear straight away: we have not made any decision about national road pricing. Indeed we are simply not yet in a position to do so. We are, for now, working with some local authorities that are interested in establishing local schemes to help address local congestion problems. Pricing is not being forced on any area, but any schemes would teach us more about how road pricing would work and inform decisions on a national scheme. And funds raised from these local schemes will be used to improve transport in those areas.

One thing I suspect we can all agree is that congestion is bad. It's bad for business because it disrupts the delivery of goods and services. It affects people's quality of life. And it is bad for the environment. That is why tackling congestion is a key priority for any Government.

Congestion is predicted to increase by 25% by 2015. This is being driven by economic prosperity. There are 6 million more vehicles on the road now than in 1997, and predictions are that this trend will continue.

Part of the solution is to improve public transport, and to make the most of the existing road network. We have more than doubled investment since 1997, spending £2.5 billion this year on buses and over £4 billion on trains - helping to explain why more people are using them than for decades. And we're committed to sustaining this investment, with over £140 billion of investment planned between now and 2015. We're also putting a great deal of effort into improving traffic flows - for example, over 1000 Highways Agency Traffic Officers now help to keep motorway traffic moving.

But all the evidence shows that improving public transport and tackling traffic bottlenecks will not by themselves prevent congestion getting worse. So we have a difficult choice to make about how we tackle the expected increase in congestion. This is a challenge that all political leaders have to face up to, and not just in the UK. For example, road pricing schemes are already in operation in Italy, Norway and Singapore, and others, such as the Netherlands, are developing schemes. Towns and cities across the world are looking at road pricing as a means of addressing congestion.

One option would be to allow congestion to grow unchecked. Given the forecast growth in traffic, doing nothing would mean that journeys within and between cities would take longer, and be less reliable. I think that would be bad for businesses, individuals and the environment. And the costs on us all will be real - congestion could cost an extra £22 billion in wasted time in England by 2025, of which £10-12 billion would be the direct cost on businesses.

A second option would be to try to build our way out of congestion. We could, of course, add new lanes to our motorways, widen roads in our congested city centres, and build new routes across the countryside. Certainly in some places new capacity will be part of the story. That is why we are widening the M25, M1 and M62. But I think people agree that we cannot simply build more and more roads, particularly when the evidence suggests that traffic quickly grows to fill any new capacity.

Tackling congestion in this way would also be extremely costly, requiring substantial sums to be diverted from other services such as education and health, or increases in taxes. If I tell you that one mile of new motorway costs as much as £30m, you'll have an idea of the sums this approach would entail.

That is why I believe that at least we need to explore the contribution road pricing can make to tackling congestion. It would not be in anyone's interests, especially those of motorists, to slam the door shut on road pricing without exploring it further.

It has been calculated that a national scheme - as part of a wider package of measures - could cut congestion significantly through small changes in our overall travel patterns. But any technology used would have to give definite guarantees about privacy being protected - as it should be. Existing technologies, such as mobile phones and pay-as-you-drive insurance schemes, may well be able to play a role here, by ensuring that the Government doesn't hold information about where vehicles have been. But there may also be opportunities presented by developments in new technology. Just as new medical technology is changing the NHS, so there will be changes in the transport sector. Our aim is to relieve traffic jams, not create a "Big Brother" society.

I know many people's biggest worry about road pricing is that it will be a "stealth tax" on motorists. It won't. Road pricing is about tackling congestion.

Clearly if we decided to move towards a system of national road pricing, there could be a case for moving away from the current system of motoring taxation. This could mean that those who use their car less, or can travel at less congested times, in less congested areas, for example in rural areas, would benefit from lower motoring costs overall. Those who travel longer distances at peak times and in more congested areas would pay more. But those are decisions for the future. At this stage, when no firm decision has been taken as to whether we will move towards a national scheme, stories about possible costs are simply not credible, since they depend on so many variables yet to be investigated, never mind decided.

Before we take any decisions about a national pricing scheme, we know that we have to have a system that works. A system that respects our privacy as individuals. A system that is fair. I fully accept that we don't have all the answers yet. That is why we are not rushing headlong into a national road pricing scheme. Before we take any decisions there would be further consultations. The public will, of course, have their say, as will Parliament.

We want to continue this debate, so that we can build a consensus around the best way to reduce congestion, protect the environment and support our businesses. If you want to find out more, please visit the attached links to more detailed information, and which also give opportunities to engage in further debate.

Yours sincerely,

Tony Blair

[Rummy]

So it may not be introduced as a stealth tax or in order to create a big brother society, but that doesn't mean it won't end up being used like that, that's one of my concerns. What about the humoungous tax already on petrol? I swear we have like the highest petrol prices in the world or something(ok, got nothing to actually back that up), but it is pretty expensive already, where's all that money going to? I saw the thing on the news that Oli mentioned, and apparently despite this petition the scheme is still going to be piloted in some areas. Really, it isn't so much a democracy as it used to be, and no one can really stop the government doing stuff they want to do.

[gaggle64]

I wish people would stop describing it as a "stealth tax", that's just needless poli-speak. It's not like anybody didn't notice it coming.

[Cube]

What would people say to getting rid of road tax, and putting more tax on petrol - (with the likes of people who regually using their vehicles off-road, e.g. farmers, having a discount). Then the amount of tax will depend on

a) How much you use the roads
b) How efficient your car is

TBH, I think taking the efficiency of cars into account will encourage the use of more efficient cars.

[Rummy]

Yeah, I agree. Even just upping the price of petrol would in effect be like charging people for the distances they drive, though I don't approve of either. What's the need for a complex system that has to monitor lots of cars when they could just put the price of petrol up instead?

[Fields]

Yeah, I agree. Even just upping the price of petrol would in effect be like charging people for the distances they drive, though I don't approve of either. What's the need for a complex system that has to monitor lots of cars when they could just put the price of petrol up instead?
I think the idea is you pay more on busy roads, and during busy times, hopefully reducing congestion.

[Cube]

I think the idea is you pay more on busy roads, and during busy times, hopefully reducing congestion.

So, basically, the people who need to travel on these busy roads at these busy times to get to work every day are fucked?

[Nintenchris]

So, basically, the people who need to travel on these busy roads at these busy times to get to work every day are fucked?

Exactly
Some people have no choice, they have to go by car. The Goverment knows this and see's it as a way to gain money.

[Fields]

So, basically, the people who need to travel on these busy roads at these busy times to get to work every day are fucked?
Well the Congestion Charge has worked in London, and this is the same principle. Admittedly though, public transport provision in the capital is leagues ahead of any other town or city in the UK. I have mixed opinions on the whole thing; there are a numerous good and bad points. Suffice to say, the public have made themselves heard, and I don't see it happening for a good while.

[CoolFunkMan]

Well the Congestion Charge has worked in London, and this is the same principle. Admittedly though, public transport provision in the capital is leagues ahead of any other town or city in the UK. I have mixed opinions on the whole thing; there are a numerous good and bad points. Suffice to say, the public have made themselves heard, and I don't see it happening for a good while.

Fair point tbh. Though I still disagree with this new system. After all, some people need to use cars as transport, plus public transport is hardly efficient these days.

I'm currently learning to drive, so this doesn't effect me so much to be fair. Then again, by the time something on this develops, I'd be driving with a proper license. Plus, what would driving schools/instructors do? Costs for lessons would be dramatically increased and will put more people off driving. Public transport would get jam-packed if this is the case...

However, it probably will take a long while for this system to come into action, so I'm not going to panic too much yet.

[Platty]

Well the Congestion Charge has worked in London, and this is the same principle. Admittedly though, public transport provision in the capital is leagues ahead of any other town or city in the UK. I have mixed opinions on the whole thing; there are a numerous good and bad points. Suffice to say, the public have made themselves heard, and I don't see it happening for a good while.

I live in London and I dont think it has worked.

I live near the blackwall tunnel and traffic has now risen there due to people avoiding central London so they dont have to pay £8. In the morning and evening rush hours the congestion there is stupid and its the same all around the congestion charging zone.

People who have to drive into London (work etc) still do and therefore either charge their customers more to cover congestion or pay out of their own pocket.

Congestion Charge would work if transport costs were lowered.. but they are not. They have just risen to £2 for a single bus journey and £4 for a single tube journey!! yes £4!!! I remember when it was 30p for a bus journey....how times have changed Mr Livingstone.

Prices like that force people back into their cars as it works out cheaper and easier.

It's all about gaining more money anyway they can hidden by a cloud that is saving the environment.

[Jimbob]

If the government bring in this road tax that will charge people per mile they travel, i'm moving out of this country. I think that the government tax people enough as it is on everything and with the already high council taxes in force.

Car tax at the moment is good enough and it will be cheaper to keep this running instead of the new system which can charge up to £1 a mile. Over a course of a year, this would come to roughly £20,000 a year per car if someone traveled 50 miles a day at £1 a mile. C'mon car tax is roughly £150 a year which is a snippet of this cost. How rich do the government think we are.

As i said earlier, i'd leave this country if it came into force and go somewhere where this system isn't and where they speak English or a language that is easy to learn.

[Flaight]

What Blair says makes sense, but I feel sorry for those who live in remove areas and must use a car. As for Londoners and big city goers, they would have a choice between using cars and public transport. If they choose to pay the new tax, they can stick to cars. That's their choice. I think it's fair enough.